Is strong emergentism a valid view ? And can special sciences have their own laws independent of physics ?

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NickGaspar
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Re: Is strong emergentism a valid view ? And can special sciences have their own laws independent of physics ?

Post by NickGaspar »

subatomic wrote: May 11th, 2021, 4:05 am
None of this for example violates certain laws of physics , but doesn't this also depend on a highly reductionist view ? That higher order phenomenon can be reduced to lower order ones ? What about holism ?
Holism and reductionism aren't contradictory, in fact, that's exactly why we have both macro-physics and quantum physics. It's not chose one or the other, they both mutually exist, it's just a matter of point of view, but that doesn't mean the other point of view is incorrect or bad. And as for special sciences independent of physics, I don't think so. The current most fundamental layer of science we know are dictated by physics (although that may be refutable - quantum physics is an absolute mess), and since everything is made out of those fundamental rules, then nothing is independent of physics. Of course I may be wrong, maybe physics is built on top of something too.
That a really good point you are making. In science, since you mentioned it, both approaches are part of Science's methodological arsenal.
Now on the "special independent sciences", one of the main characteristics of science is Epistemic Connectedness. So we know that the different aspects and "scales" of nature are studied by different sciences but where most these disciplines "meet" the connection and continuity of their frameworks if obvious. That is not true for the quantum and classical world where our descriptive frameworks in one field don't scale well in an other. But still we can observe rough similarities and "spills" in both "worlds".
But people need to understand that Holism and reudctionism in science are methods of investigation, not arbitrary philosophical positions.
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: Is strong emergentism a valid view ? And can special sciences have their own laws independent of physics ?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

subatomic wrote: May 11th, 2021, 4:05 am quantum physics is an absolute mess
Odd that, for the most successful theory science has ever proposed. It has passed every test made, and every experiment carried out.


subatomic wrote: May 11th, 2021, 4:05 am maybe physics is built on top of something too.
How about the universe? With all this talk of the laws of physics, it's easy to misunderstand them to carry some sort of authority. The universe is the reference; the laws of physics merely describe (as best they/we can) how the reference behaves. Physics is a sort of map, necessary only for human understanding. The universe is what physics seeks to map, and it, not physics, is the reference/master.
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