It does not matter how many times you say the same thing. Whether or not it is true is of no consequence to the issue.psyreporter wrote: ↑April 16th, 2022, 8:39 amNon-determinism implies that there is meaning in the Universe as precursor to empirical value. Free will is a concept relative to human choice as a derivative consequence from that fundamental nature aspect. The reason that the debate is framed as free will vs determinism is because the fundamental nature aspect of non-determinism requires to be defended on the basis of meaningful experience (conscious experience). Therefore, one will look at one's ability to choose as evidence for non-determinism and faces an inability to capture that apparent common sense ability within the scope of empirical value.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 16th, 2022, 4:55 amFalse.psyreporter wrote: ↑April 16th, 2022, 2:29 amYou mentioned yourself that GMO requires determinism to be true: "The universe is perfectly deterministic else none of this (GMO) would work."
Determinism has as consequence that there is no meaning in the Universe which implies that there can be no morality.
Free will has the consequence of no meaning, since, if you can do whatever you want regardless of cause or purpose what meaning can there possibly be? None!
But whether or not free will exists, this has very little to do with GMO.
Even if the universe had meaning, what is your point?
Maybe we are supposed to be here to genetically modify living things. Maybe our very meaning is to command the earth and the living things on the planet.?
I'm still waiting to hear is you have any concrete objections to GMO.
Again this is nonsense. Morality also relies on empirical information, else could you know harm from good, and how could you evaluate utilitarian morality?
In a deterministic Universe empirical value is all that exists which implies that morality isn't applicable.
WTF is "vitality of meaningful experience"; why does it matter; and how does GMO change that?The plausibility of the consideration of the concept vitality of meaningful experience, for one. That concept has far reaching implications that includes the foundation for human life.
We are talking about morality not "intelligence".
In a deterministic Universe, moral questions are irrelevant. With free will, moral questions can be considered in potential, which is all that is required to be able to argue that morality is applicable.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑April 16th, 2022, 4:55 amIf free will exists then we are capable of ignoring, by choice, any moral questions.Therefore at question is: can morality for animals and plants be safely ignored? If so, what would be the justification for that or would it merely consist of a belief in determinism?
I continue to submit that the determinism/free will argument is not relevant.
This is not true. Evidence for plant intelligence is fairly recent however.
That is absurd.
Moral questions with regard applicability of GMO would concern whether GMO is good for the bacteria involved.
It would be immoral to place the life of a bacteria above that of a human. Next time you do to the doctor with the intention of getting rid of an infection think about that.
When humans find a USE for animals that tends to guarantee their survival. Is that not "good". GMO bacteria that provides insulin to humans benefits from surviving.Perhaps minor GMO is not a problem for bacteria, especially since they perform GMO themselves or are victim of it by viruses. That latter notion is impossible, bacteria would become victim of GMO and are destroyed by it. Therefore, in such cases GMO would not be good for bacteria.
Bacteria, plants and lower animals cannot feel concern and so are not moral beings.
When it concerns morality for animals and plants, it would concern the question whether GMO would be good from their inside-out perspective (e.g. their meaningful experience) on behalf of long term prosperity of the foundation of human life.
Compared to bacteria, plants, especially bigger plants and animals, may require more profound moral consideration to secure vital prosperity.