No man is free who is not a master of himself

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heracleitos
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Re: No man is free who is not a master of himself

Post by heracleitos »

Sy Borg wrote: June 7th, 2022, 12:45 am I'm not seeing the connection.
Western laws do not apply outside western territories. Other laws apply there. The arrogance and disrespect of the West is simply intolerable. Therefore, I count on people like Vladimir Putin to duly rein in the problem. Furthermore, Putin is right that the only solution is a military one. That is clearly why Vladimir Putin has decided to put his nuclear arsenal on notice for immediate action, and to re-establish the 24/7 nuclear threat against the US-EU geopolitical block. Vladimir Putin has clarified that he will no longer tolerate even the slightest hint of disrespect for the Russian Federation. Furthermore, as far as I am concerned, all of that was long overdue.
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Sy Borg
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Re: No man is free who is not a master of himself

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heracleitos wrote: June 7th, 2022, 1:02 am
Sy Borg wrote: June 7th, 2022, 12:45 am I'm not seeing the connection.
Western laws do not apply outside western territories. Other laws apply there. The arrogance and disrespect of the West is simply intolerable. Therefore, I count on people like Vladimir Putin to duly rein in the problem. Furthermore, Putin is right that the only solution is a military one. That is clearly why Vladimir Putin has decided to put his nuclear arsenal on notice for immediate action, and to re-establish the 24/7 nuclear threat against the US-EU geopolitical block. Vladimir Putin has clarified that he will no longer tolerate even the slightest hint of disrespect for the Russian Federation. Furthermore, as far as I am concerned, all of that was long overdue.
I see. You were angered by disrespect and spoke aggressively about the end of all that I supposedly represent. Aggressive responses by Islamist extremists to criticism are well-documented. Respect must be earned. Stone age ideas about the sexes are worthy of interest in an anthropological sense, but not respect, due to poor ethics (the manipulation of and hobbling of women) and lack of reasonableness (lack of recognition and reward for talent in women).
Belindi
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Re: No man is free who is not a master of himself

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heracleitos wrote: June 6th, 2022, 10:20 am
Belindi wrote: June 6th, 2022, 8:55 am Heracleitos, is the bride price held by you in trust for the woman when you no longer desire the woman? If the bride price is not to safeguard the woman's future then it must be for buying her.
She gets the money paid cash when we conclude the deal.
Beyond that, I don't care what she does with the money.
As I know most women, I can imagine that in her mind she spends the money five times over even before she gets it.
Belindi wrote: June 6th, 2022, 8:55 am It's wrong to buy a man or a woman as if you had power over their feelings and intellects. It's ethical to buy human labour but only if ...
No. Disagreed.

The signon bonus, i.e. the mahar, is simply mandatory in Islamic law. There is absolutely no doubt about that.

In this context, the notions of right and wrong, i.e. halal and haram, are exclusively determined by syntactic entailment from religious law. Furthermore, such scriptural determination requires a jurisprudential advisory from a qualified religious scholar, who objectively and mechanically derives the answer from scripture. Furthermore, there needs to be ijma (consensus) between the ulema (religious scholars) on the matter.

In this context, you cannot just invent these things. That is the difference between Islam and atheism (or even Christianity).

This utmost rigid epistemic procedure, i.e. the usul al fiqh, is exactly the most striking difference between Islam and other moral theories. The advisory must respect all required, lengthy formalisms in order to be receivable. I do not always like bureaucracy, but in religious law, I am a great fan of it. Furthermore, I resolutely reject all other moral theories other than Islamic law, simply because these other things are invariably unserious.
Do you pay the sex worker substantially more per hour than you pay the cleaner? The sex worker , including those in a traditional society, needs danger money which brings his or her wages up to the level of a doctor or senior policeman.

Ijtihad is peculiar to some Sunni sects. For those numerous sects, the 'Gates of Ijtihad' have not been opened for 800 years. Time for Islam to have a religious reformation and by liberal and sceptical examination bring it into modernity.

https://www.newageislam.com/ijtihad-ret ... am/d/35632

It is a great pity that Islam which has so much good in it historically and theologically has not been modernised for the benefit of individual Moslems and for international relations. Adulation of the Koran is akin to idolatry which Allah condemns before any other sin.

You, Heracleitos, may be conservative because it suits your attachment to sex to do so. Are you aware of how confirmation bias affects us all to some degree? Unless you are you can't be master of yourself.
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LuckyR
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Re: No man is free who is not a master of himself

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heracleitos wrote: June 6th, 2022, 8:29 pm
LuckyR wrote: June 6th, 2022, 2:52 pm First, part of the problem with your commentary is you use your personal situation (which <<1% of men worldwide can do)
I am a digital nomad - nomad capitalist raised in the EU who now lives in SE Asia. I think that millions of men could conceivably do what I do. In fact, you don't need to be from the West to do this. Nowadays all opportunities are available to anyone.
LuckyR wrote: June 6th, 2022, 2:52 pm Why wouldn't you predict women would similarly spend very little time and energy thinking about how they appear to men? Especially, since as a non woman, you are not an expert in this area.
I think that I have got most of my ideas on that matter from the main areas in the manosphere.

For example, nowadays, I watch Taylor The Fiend's videos almost on a daily basis. I find him incredibly funny. He chooses TikTok videos in which a woman complains about dating and of course about men, and then Taylor says things like: "Chad does not want to commit and now she says that all men are trash. She keeps chasing Chad. She is addicted to shopping above her price range."

Another super funny commentator is Wheat Waffles. He is tremendously black-pilled. His mainstay revolves around statements like "Your looks are everything", which I am quite sure is true for young middle class women, and "Never listen to what she says. Only look at what she does." or "Stacey makes rules for betas and breaks them for Chad."

So, quite a bit of what I believe about female behavior comes from the manosphere: the red and black pills, and mgtow. Does that make me an expert? Of course not. Does that make any of these YouTube channels an expert? Also not. All of that just happens to be what we believe about it.

The "effenist" movement revolves around women complaining about men. The manosphere is the mirror of that. It revolves around men complaining about women. It is the complete rejection of blue-pilled "romantic love", which in our opinion, does not exist, and which deviously manipulates men into simping for women.

But then again, only in the West the situation is truly unmanageable. Over here in SE Asian, we still have "relationshits" instead of mere "situationshits". Furthermore, Islamic law and its rules for niqah are an excellent tool to balance things out. By the way, the manosphere is wildly popular with Muslim men.

In conclusion, I am definitely not an expert on female behavior, and my opinions on the matter are not even original.
Got it. So now (almost) all is revealed.

Assuming your wealth is a lot greater than $1 million US, you are in fact well into the top 1%, worldwide. Thus your assertion that what you do, as a top 0.5%er is "available to anyone", is ridiculous on its face.

As to your commentary about (not behavior towards) the general topic of women, I agree with you that they are not original and flow naturally from your "information" sources. Of course, even a simpleton is aware that social media sources derive revenue from their popularity and thus are in the business of churning out clickbait for their customers. Dog bites man, didn't sell newspapers and women's thoughts don't revolve around getting hot men in the sack doesn't lead to more followers.

Still wondering about how you interact with the baby momma. Might be too personal, so feel free to ignore.
"As usual... it depends."
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Elephant
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Re: No man is free who is not a master of himself

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Sushan wrote: May 7th, 2022, 10:10 pm But today many people have become gig workers / freelancers who are employed under no one, but work by themselves. So you are the boss of your own self. IMO It is not a very safe way to have an income since you are not guaranteed a fixed pay, and you do not have a job agreement or a payslip to forward to a bank to get a loan, which can be very crucial at times. Yet more and more people choose this path.

Is it because people feel like being their own masters is better than good financial security? Are people that much reluctant to be or work under someone else?
I think we all know it's not financially secure to work the gig jobs. But those who do gigs like the flexibility and the fact that they're not seated in the office for 9 hours. At least in thought, flexibility is very attractive. There is also a difference in employee-employer relationship and working as a contractor or gig -- the latter has limited responsibility, and so long as they complete the task, they're done for the day. Employees often, if not always, are tasked with increasing responsibilities of the job.

So, flexibility and less responsibility are trade-offs for financial security.

I never worked gig or contract work, but I can tell you that the inflexibility of employee/employer relationship wears me down.
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Re: No man is free who is not a master of himself

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Elephant wrote: June 9th, 2022, 11:19 pm
Sushan wrote: May 7th, 2022, 10:10 pm But today many people have become gig workers / freelancers who are employed under no one, but work by themselves. So you are the boss of your own self. IMO It is not a very safe way to have an income since you are not guaranteed a fixed pay, and you do not have a job agreement or a payslip to forward to a bank to get a loan, which can be very crucial at times. Yet more and more people choose this path.

Is it because people feel like being their own masters is better than good financial security? Are people that much reluctant to be or work under someone else?
I think we all know it's not financially secure to work the gig jobs. But those who do gigs like the flexibility and the fact that they're not seated in the office for 9 hours. At least in thought, flexibility is very attractive. There is also a difference in employee-employer relationship and working as a contractor or gig -- the latter has limited responsibility, and so long as they complete the task, they're done for the day. Employees often, if not always, are tasked with increasing responsibilities of the job.

So, flexibility and less responsibility are trade-offs for financial security.

I never worked gig or contract work, but I can tell you that the inflexibility of employee/employer relationship wears me down.
Poor girls from poor families are hardly choosing to work in the gig economy. In place of inflexible employers many girls, whether or not they know it, are subjected to inflexible misogyny and/or great need to earn so they can eat. All sexual prostitutes risk diseases, insults, pregnancy if female, rape, beating and murder. Sex workers should be protected against irresponsible customers such as I suspect Heracleitos to be, and be paid according to the dangers of their work.
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Re: No man is free who is not a master of himself

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The unspoken corollary to working gig jobs, is rejecting consumerism, such that the less pay goes farther since folks are not buying more "toys". Deriving pleasure and satisfaction with experiences, not things.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: No man is free who is not a master of himself

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LuckyR wrote: June 10th, 2022, 4:53 am The unspoken corollary to working gig jobs, is rejecting consumerism, such that the less pay goes farther since folks are not buying more "toys". Deriving pleasure and satisfaction with experiences, not things.
It's always pleasant to be independent enough to choose. Lots of people have no choice but to work where and how the work is and some people have no spare money or spare psychic energy for fun.

In those 'traditional' societies where women have very little chance of independence from male rule it's best to accept the inevitable and extract from a melancholy situation as much pleasure as may be.
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Re: No man is free who is not a master of himself

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Belindi wrote: June 10th, 2022, 3:41 am
Poor girls from poor families are hardly choosing to work in the gig economy. In place of inflexible employers many girls, whether or not they know it, are subjected to inflexible misogyny and/or great need to earn so they can eat. All sexual prostitutes risk diseases, insults, pregnancy if female, rape, beating and murder. Sex workers should be protected against irresponsible customers such as I suspect Heracleitos to be, and be paid according to the dangers of their work.
Okay, I didn't think of this. When I thought of gig jobs, I think of legit gig jobs -- food delivery, uber driving, caregiving, pet caregiving, art, music, other self-employment, etc.

But you are right. Some jobs for the desperate leave them without security and protection.

Here's the thing, one of the negative results of the pandemic and the job market is that some employers ( and I do mean full-time, regular employment) have become so blatantly disrespectful such as promising something on job offer letter to a candidate, then months later after the new employee has started working, rescind the benefits, leaving the employee without a choice and not be able to act quickly. I've seen this happen that I questioned what the hell is going on? Employers take advantage of the situation.
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Re: No man is free who is not a master of himself

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LuckyR wrote: June 10th, 2022, 4:53 am The unspoken corollary to working gig jobs, is rejecting consumerism, such that the less pay goes farther since folks are not buying more "toys". Deriving pleasure and satisfaction with experiences, not things.
Haha! I just received news today from a cousin whose best friend just quit her job and never to go back working. I asked, how is she going to survive as she has years to go before retirement. Well, in turns out, she has lived frugally and paid off her condo. With some savings, and some help from health care, she'll manage to live. She will live frugally, but it beats going back to work for even double the income.
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Belindi
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Re: No man is free who is not a master of himself

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Isn't there a future in trade and professional unions that result in labour being as powerful as management and/or experts?
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Re: No man is free who is not a master of himself

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Belindi wrote: June 10th, 2022, 5:03 am
LuckyR wrote: June 10th, 2022, 4:53 am The unspoken corollary to working gig jobs, is rejecting consumerism, such that the less pay goes farther since folks are not buying more "toys". Deriving pleasure and satisfaction with experiences, not things.
It's always pleasant to be independent enough to choose. Lots of people have no choice but to work where and how the work is and some people have no spare money or spare psychic energy for fun.

In those 'traditional' societies where women have very little chance of independence from male rule it's best to accept the inevitable and extract from a melancholy situation as much pleasure as may be.
Very true, of course, but those most often referred to as joining the gig economy, are closer my description than yours.
"As usual... it depends."
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LuckyR
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Re: No man is free who is not a master of himself

Post by LuckyR »

Elephant wrote: June 10th, 2022, 9:39 pm
LuckyR wrote: June 10th, 2022, 4:53 am The unspoken corollary to working gig jobs, is rejecting consumerism, such that the less pay goes farther since folks are not buying more "toys". Deriving pleasure and satisfaction with experiences, not things.
Haha! I just received news today from a cousin whose best friend just quit her job and never to go back working. I asked, how is she going to survive as she has years to go before retirement. Well, in turns out, she has lived frugally and paid off her condo. With some savings, and some help from health care, she'll manage to live. She will live frugally, but it beats going back to work for even double the income.
For those who are believers like your friend (not posers), very true.
"As usual... it depends."
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LuckyR
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Re: No man is free who is not a master of himself

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Belindi wrote: June 11th, 2022, 6:26 am Isn't there a future in trade and professional unions that result in labour being as powerful as management and/or experts?
No, management has completely distracted the working class into concentrating on abortion, guns, gays and aliens.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: No man is free who is not a master of himself

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LuckyR wrote: June 11th, 2022, 8:46 am
Belindi wrote: June 10th, 2022, 5:03 am
LuckyR wrote: June 10th, 2022, 4:53 am The unspoken corollary to working gig jobs, is rejecting consumerism, such that the less pay goes farther since folks are not buying more "toys". Deriving pleasure and satisfaction with experiences, not things.
It's always pleasant to be independent enough to choose. Lots of people have no choice but to work where and how the work is and some people have no spare money or spare psychic energy for fun.

In those 'traditional' societies where women have very little chance of independence from male rule it's best to accept the inevitable and extract from a melancholy situation as much pleasure as may be.
Very true, of course, but those most often referred to as joining the gig economy, are closer my description than yours.
I thought the gig economy was casual self employed labour. It's true that prostitution may be, and in most cases nowadays I guess is, highly organised either legitimately or by criminals.
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