Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Pattern-chaser]

Hello, Pattern-chaser, 

I firmly believe that we cannot discuss this subject in isolation while looking for a solution. If we limit ourselves to the legal implications, such as those in Texas, it does not weigh in all the possible circumstances. 

[...]

I live thousands of miles from Texas. I also believe that this is a global issue, not an American one. If you see only what happens in your not-always-civilised country, you may see things out of proportion? Women live everywhere on the planet, so I think this is an issue for all of them, in all countries.

[Pattern-chaser]

Morality is inherently personal, and the government does not have the authority to interfere in individual lives or decisions. 

Of course it does. That's what we elect them to do, on our behalf; we *give* them that authority. But that's another discussion, one that is off-topic here.

[Seetha E]

I once witnessed the case of a young women around 17 who ended being pregnant of an unknown father. Once the mother realized that she was around 8+ months pregnant, forced her to have an abortion only to "keep the good name of the family". It's hard for me not to think of this as something punishable.

Hello, Count Lucanor,

I agree with you in this case. Cases like these also reveal the deeper issues rooted in our societal norms. Laws alone cannot effectively address these fundamental problems.

We need to invest in value systems that promote mutual trust and respect. Fostering strong family bonds provides an emotional foundation. The young learn from what they see around them. Furthermore, we must ensure universal access to education and skill development to empower.

It is essential to emphasize the importance of physical, mental, emotional, and financial stability before entering into a relationship. Such adolescents will be self-confident, possess critical thinking skills, and be better equipped to tackle the various stages of life. A gradual change in which everyone participates.

[Jenna Padayachee]

An interesting article.
I appreciate your views and your perspective on the potential reality of a Woman's Freedom to choose an abortion.
In my view, no matter how liberated a country may be, every woman faces a unique set of circumstances. What can be agreed upon as freedom in one circumstance can then again be viewed as an abuse of power in another. I simply pray and meditate upon what is within my control in my space and trust that this is the biggest difference I can make in living my life through my own authenticity. I trust that other women face their own battles on such matters by trusting their instincts and hearts irrespective of environmental limitations
This is a complicated matter, however, I once again appreciate the insight your article provides from a different point of view.

[LuckyR]

I once witnessed the case of a young women around 17 who ended being pregnant of an unknown father. Once the mother realized that she was around 8+ months pregnant, forced her to have an abortion only to "keep the good name of the family". It's hard for me not to think of this as something punishable. People get in jail for killing a dog.

Where and when was this case you witnessed?

[Seetha E]

Oh, what label strikes you as better than "unwanted"?
I am uncertain in what form your concern exists as. Could you please go into more detail?

Hello LuckyR,
It is accurate within the reference. I agree, and can't think of a kinder term either.

The concerns:
1) the woman/couple wants an abortion for the lack of financial stability/recent separation/too young etc. and is being denied.

If a woman/couple does not feel an overall sense of stability in life, they will obviously not be in a position to care for the child and this job will spill over to the society or the government. This is unfair to all parties involved.

[Seetha E]

First, we all must take responsibility for our own actions. That's not to say that no-one deserves help (they do) or understanding (that too). But it is also the case that we can't expect everyone else to fix our problems when they occur. It's about decency and decent behaviour toward one another. We do deserve help from one another, but we don't have the right to expect others to make it all right.

Hello Pattern-chaser,
I am sorry. I am not sure if I fully understand your first point.

I completely agree with your POV in the 2nd case. There are several countries where women are treated as 2nd-class citizens. A lot of work is needed in such cases. There the issues may be completely different. Hence, it is about a woman's right to choose and not merely pro or against abortion. It is about allowing a setup that empowers the decision-making process without any aggression.

[Count Lucanor]

I once witnessed the case of a young women around 17 who ended being pregnant of an unknown father. Once the mother realized that she was around 8+ months pregnant, forced her to have an abortion only to "keep the good name of the family". It's hard for me not to think of this as something punishable.

Hello, Count Lucanor,

I agree with you in this case. Cases like these also reveal the deeper issues rooted in our societal norms. Laws alone cannot effectively address these fundamental problems.

We need to invest in value systems that promote mutual trust and respect. Fostering strong family bonds provides an emotional foundation. The young learn from what they see around them. Furthermore, we must ensure universal access to education and skill development to empower.

It is essential to emphasize the importance of physical, mental, emotional, and financial stability before entering into a relationship. Such adolescents will be self-confident, possess critical thinking skills, and be better equipped to tackle the various stages of life. A gradual change in which everyone participates.

Education is one thing and laws are another. Our discussion is about what laws must be in place, assuming some universal values. My view is that abortion should be lawful, with limitations.

[Count Lucanor]

I once witnessed the case of a young women around 17 who ended being pregnant of an unknown father. Once the mother realized that she was around 8+ months pregnant, forced her to have an abortion only to "keep the good name of the family". It's hard for me not to think of this as something punishable. People get in jail for killing a dog.

Where and when was this case you witnessed?

This was around 20 years ago within my circle of acquaintances.

[Seetha E]

The government should ensure that women have the support and information they need to make an informed decision, but it should not outright restrict their ability to choose. A woman is in the best position to decide what is best for her and her future, and respecting that decision is crucial for true freedom.

Hello Anu Anand,

I agree. Thank you for sharing your perspective on this subject.

[Seetha E]

Creating an awareness in the government and society and defining their roles on our part is essential in the current day scenario of aggression and violence.

Hello Surabhi Rani,

I completely agree with you; it is about defining each party's role without resorting to aggression to enable an informed decision.

[Seetha E]

An interesting article.
I appreciate your views and your perspective on the potential reality of a Woman's Freedom to choose an abortion.
In my view, no matter how liberated a country may be, every woman faces a unique set of circumstances. What can be agreed upon as freedom in one circumstance can then again be viewed as an abuse of power in another. I simply pray and meditate upon what is within my control in my space and trust that this is the biggest difference I can make in living my life through my own authenticity. I trust that other women face their own battles on such matters by trusting their instincts and hearts irrespective of environmental limitations
This is a complicated matter, however, I once again appreciate the insight your article provides from a different point of view.

Hello Jenna,

I agree with all the aspects you raise in your response to the article. It is indeed regarding the uniqueness each one presents and the possible misuse of the power of freedom.
I appreciate your stand on this subject.
Thank you.

[Lagayascienza]

Why should anyone have the right to force a woman to give birth to a child she does not want? It's her body. She has full personhood, and the full suite of rights that attach thereto, which a blastocyst or embryo does not. We ought to leave other people alone and stop trying to force religious or moral views on them which they do not share.

[Seetha E]

It's hard for me not to think of this as something punishable.

I agree with you in this case.

Education is one thing and laws are another. Our discussion is about what laws must be in place, assuming some universal values. My view is that abortion should be lawful, with limitations.

Hello Count Lucanor,

Thank you for your response.
I did agree with your views about the particular case you highlighted. Such cases deserve to be treated seriously.

Your POV about abortion: lawful with restrictions
Please allow me to explain my earlier response about the need for social change

No laws: In many parts of the world, women's rights are entirely overlooked. (There is a dire need for change in such cases)

Blanket Laws: There are some parts (even in developed countries) where we see troubling instances of essential medical care/abortion being denied to women with genuine cases.

Reasonable Laws: There are places (India) where abortion laws consider a wide range of scenarios. However, the unfortunate reality is that practices like sex determination, while illegal (to prevent female infanticide), are still evaded, leading women to face immense pressure from family to make heartbreaking choices when a girl child is detected.
Even when laws cover almost all bases, we often find that they fall short of genuinely empowering women (in the present/future) to make informed, independent decisions.

Hence, when I see all three scenarios, I feel, the government should be restricted to actively supporting women's rights, ensuring she has access to compassionate medical care and counseling, while ultimately allowing women to decide what is best for them. This will help reduce/eliminate wrongful acts and not endanger women's lives. I maintain, that major changes in society are needed to address the root causes.

I am open to all views as it will help me understand and consider other aspects that I may have missed.

[Seetha E]

Why should anyone have the right to force a woman to give birth to a child she does not want? It's her body. She has full personhood, and the full suite of rights that attach thereto, which a blastocyst or embryo does not. We ought to leave other people alone and stop trying to force religious or moral views on them which they do not share.

Hello La Gaya Scienza,
Thank you for following this discussion and sharing your views on the subject.