Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Pattern-chaser]

I think a successful nation is one that provides welfare and wellbeing to its citizens.

That is a metric that is very biased towards a statist/socialist way of thinking.

Perhaps it is. It is certainly not incompatible with "a statist/socialist way of thinking".

It is not merely compatible with statist/socialist ways of thinking, it is a direct offshoot of it. It suggests that a state cannot be deemed successful unless it is the state itself that directly provides the welfare and wellbeing to it's citizens. A state that merely facilitates the conditions that lead to these things being provided would be judged as a "failed" state by your definition.

All of this misunderstanding comes from your libertarian/American view of "the state" as a foreign invader. If you don't want a "state", then don't have one. But most societies of more than (say) 100 humans, find it convenient to appoint a few to act on their behalf.

You are your state; your state is you. [Plural "you" in both cases.]

If your "state" does not serve you as you (all) wish, change it. It's yours to change.



It suggests that a state cannot be deemed successful unless it is the state itself that directly provides the welfare and wellbeing to it's citizens.
It states no such thing. For a start, because I and my "state" are one and the same, the source of help isn't that important. It all comes from me/us anyway. It's the *destination* that matters, not the source. Also, in line with your words here, a state that provided something we don't or didn't need would be wasting its time and our money, so it should stop.

Why are you so keen to paint me red, like a Communist flag? I am not recommending a centralised and controlled economy. The old quote is simplest and clearest: "From each according to his means; to each according to his needs." As long as we don't take this as quasi-biblical dogma, it works well.



A state that merely facilitates the conditions that lead to these things being provided would be judged as a "failed" state by your definition.
Nonsense. If, in the end, all of us receive what we *need*, then all is well, and the "state" has done whatever it needs to do. The welfare and wellbeing of all citizens is provided for, so my original description is met.

[Mo_reese]

While the US trails all Western nations in the indicators of personal well-being, they lead the world in defense spending.

Since the rest of the western world depends on the US for protection, and have depended on that protection while they dismantle their own military capabilities in order to fund more generous welfare programmes, that criticism seems misplaced.

And I see that Sy Borg has pointed that out to you already.

I am answering the question "Why America is Failing". My answer is that the government spends too much on defense and profits for the MIC than helping infants survive. This has led us to a certain helplessness because of lack of representation. And now we have a dictator that is ruining lives by the thousands. He is violating court orders and deporting people that are in the US legally. ICE is the gestapo.

[Sy Borg]

Mo belongs on The View with Whoopie, Jo and the rest.

Her above post has zero logic and zero objectivity.

The US is doing MUCH better than Europe, Australia and Canada. The fact is that Europe is failing - largely because the EU failed to control their borders and allowed an already crowded Europe to become as divided as the US, and now it appears to be pushing for WWIII, given that it has no hope of beating Russia in Ukraine.

Trump is saving the US from those who want to see it fall, many of them being Marxists seeking to destroy the US from within. I wish we had someone half as good as Trump in Australia to pull us out of our death spiral, but we seem to be going down the same gurgler as the EU.

[Gertie]

While the US trails all Western nations in the indicators of personal well-being, they lead the world in defense spending.

Since the rest of the western world depends on the US for protection, and have depended on that protection while they dismantle their own military capabilities in order to fund more generous welfare programmes, that criticism seems misplaced.

And I see that Sy Borg has pointed that out to you already.

I am answering the question "Why America is Failing". My answer is that the government spends too much on defense and profits for the MIC than helping infants survive. This has led us to a certain helplessness because of lack of representation. And now we have a dictator that is ruining lives by the thousands. He is violating court orders and deporting people that are in the US legally. ICE is the gestapo.

Trump's also messing up the western alliance at an economically vulnerable time, and playing with ongoing and potentially spreading wars, purely from a pov of self-interest. While his nihilistic henchmen actively support the rise of far right parties across the world, as the neoliberal status quo fails.

Interesting times...

[Mo_reese]

Mo belongs on The View with Whoopie, Jo and the rest.

Her above post has zero logic and zero objectivity.

It's a shame but it seems you are more interested in the above than having an honest discussion.

[Mo_reese]

Mo belongs on The View with Whoopie, Jo and the rest.

Her above post has zero logic and zero objectivity.

It's a shame but it seems you are more interested in the above than having an honest discussion.

[Mo_reese]

Trump's also messing up the western alliance at an economically vulnerable time, and playing with ongoing and potentially spreading wars, purely from a pov of self-interest. While his nihilistic henchmen actively support the rise of far right parties across the world, as the neoliberal status quo fails.

Interesting times...

Some of us have been saying for a long time that it isn't the Dems vs Repubs but the Wealthy Class vs the non-Wealthy Class. We can see that very clearly now. All the wealthy either have sided with Musk or are hiding hoping not to be noticed. The Democratic Elite are especially quiet because they want to hold on to their wealth.

[Sy Borg]

Mo belongs on The View with Whoopie, Jo and the rest.

Her above post has zero logic and zero objectivity.

It's a shame but it seems you are more interested in the above than having an honest discussion.

Projection. My point was your dishonesty. A sequence of lies, without concern in veracity.

[eyesofastranger]

As a Canadian I can see our fears of American isolationism have really shone through. Your dictator is only a puppet. His brand of shock politics is what so very many Americans very much wanted. Those in power, the oligarchs and even SCOTUS are looking the other way.
We watched this worsen for many years. We watched the intentional demise of your education system that is poised to now deteriorate even more. Perusing mainstream forums I can see as the entire world reacts so very few Americans are even aware.
My education is not philosophy but a sizeable portion of it is history.
The Americans have borrowed to the point that no longer has a way out. Then borrowed to pay for borrowed so many times that the chit is about to hit the fan. Backing away from Ukraine has become a necessity. Backing out of the WHO and NATO has also become an act of self preservation. DOGE and firing opposition is all too predictable. Dropping any Gov department that doesn't provide air that you breath. Also predictable.
Cozying up to world dictators in the interest of surviving, Didn't see that one coming.
We will become CANZUK or EU but it will be many generations to restore any semblance of trust with the US. Maybe youtube some stuff you'll find exactly that sentiment.
Albeit this is a personal observation of one Canadian.

[Pattern-chaser]

As a Canadian I can see our fears of American isolationism have really shone through. Your dictator is only a puppet. His brand of shock politics is what so very many Americans very much wanted. Those in power, the oligarchs and even SCOTUS are looking the other way.
We watched this worsen for many years. We watched the intentional demise of your education system that is poised to now deteriorate even more. Perusing mainstream forums I can see as the entire world reacts so very few Americans are even aware.
My education is not philosophy but a sizeable portion of it is history.
The Americans have borrowed to the point that no longer has a way out. Then borrowed to pay for borrowed so many times that the chit is about to hit the fan. Backing away from Ukraine has become a necessity. Backing out of the WHO and NATO has also become an act of self preservation. DOGE and firing opposition is all too predictable. Dropping any Gov department that doesn't provide air that you breath. Also predictable.
Cozying up to world dictators in the interest of surviving, Didn't see that one coming.
We will become CANZUK or EU but it will be many generations to restore any semblance of trust with the US. Maybe youtube some stuff you'll find exactly that sentiment.
Albeit this is a personal observation of one Canadian.

Every different perspective contributes to a better and more complete view of things.

[Mo_reese]

America (the United States that is) is failing because like all bullies, sooner or later they collapse. The US was founded to be a Constitutionally controlled democratic republic and struggled against the capitalism monster until the 1930's when the unsustainable capitalism collapsed. After WW II the country had a rebirth and the benefits of capitalism were realized along with social programs to help those that capitalism did not help. However, the insatiable monster continued to grow breaking free of the constraints of regulations. The taxpayers were extorted into bailing out corporations that had failed leading other corporations to recognize how much easier failing was than competing. The oil corporation monopoly got subsidies to grow their profits and power. The new corporate business model was to hire the US government leaders to give them taxpayer money. This became unsustainable with more and more money and power moved to fewer and fewer people. How fitting that Trump, the epitome of corruption, racism, misogamy, etc., should be holding the torch of capitalism as it implodes.

[Mo_reese]

The US IRS predicts that Musk's DOGE hasn't saved a cent but has cost $500,000,000 in two short months. Trump and Musk are trying to bankrupt the US

[Sy Borg]

There is no philosophy being done here, just more lies and propaganda.

Not much point having a political propaganda thread on a philosophy forum. You can start a thread on Reddit or whatever.

[Mo_reese]

Israel has held control over Gaza and the West Bank for over 50 years. While Israel isn't the government, I think that the philosopher Thomas Paine would agree that the Palestinians have a right to try to overthrow the control by Israel.

Sadly Israel couldn't carry out their program of extermination of Palestinians without the financial and technical help from the US who are locked with Israel in a symbiotic relationship of corruption. US politicians send tens of billions to Israel and Israel uses some to buy the influence of those politicians that send them the money. The US is failing because the people recognize that the ruling class of the US cares more about supporting genocide that taking care of those in the US that need help.

[Sy Borg]

Pathetic. How typical of Palestine fetishists to hijack unrelated areas for their sick propaganda.

Imagine if you mustered the same passion for homeless locals. Or maybe you might find some small care for the extermination of Christians in Syria, or the savagery in Sudan?

Never mind that the thread is about the US - not Palestine. Really, the thread is about the jealousy of Europeans and Asians of the US's incredible success. That's why so many people are moving to the US from those regions. What we should be asking is why Europe, England, Canada, Australia and NZ are failing.