Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Sy Borg]

And the percentage of the MAGA crowd who want Hillary dead is what?

But Republicans are not claiming to be the party of love and compassion while that is how Democrats and Greens hypocritically position themselves.

[Pattern-chaser]

The left tried twice to assassinate Trump.

Fact check: one potential assassin "at the time was the presumptive Republican Party nominee for the 2024 presidential election", and the other was a political "independent", formerly a member of the Democratic Party. So it looks like the two had different political origins. And so it seems unfair and factually incorrect to assert that these two attempts were made by "the left", doesn't it?

That's true, although the left made him more of a target by spreading constant lies about him.

Viral Video Rant: A woman’s video went viral on X, where she expressed frustration, saying, “We were a centimeter away from half of the problem being gone and you MISSED.” This post, shared by @DailyLoud
on July 15, 2024, sparked significant backlash for its explicit disappointment over the failed attempt.

In the aftermath there were comments such as “I will sing in the streets,” or “It will be a national holiday in my home forever,” in reference to the prospect of Trump’s death. A person at a protest held a sign wishing Trump dead, regretting that the assassin “missed” and hoping for another attempt. Another wrote, “damn, they missed” (which cost the poster her job).

There's also been talk about the "need" to kill Musk too.

An NCRI survey found that 48.6% of left-of-center respondents believed murdering Elon Musk was “at least somewhat justified,” and 55.2% felt the same about Donald Trump.

I can't support murder, even of a dangerous lunatic like Trump. And my understanding of American culture and politics is ... close to non-existent. To me, it is a lunatic morasse of consumption, in pursuit of profit. And I am fairly sure that a deeper understanding than mine is required if meaningful and useful discussion is to be possible.

But I do remember, in my own UK, the celebrations, and even a bit of dancing in the streets, when Margaret Thatcher died. "Ding, dong, the witch is dead!" I still did not stoop to thoughts of murder, but I found myself sympathising with the cheering groups.

It's not always easy to stick with principles when the real world mixes everything up, together.

[Sy Borg]

The left tried twice to assassinate Trump.

Fact check: one potential assassin "at the time was the presumptive Republican Party nominee for the 2024 presidential election", and the other was a political "independent", formerly a member of the Democratic Party. So it looks like the two had different political origins. And so it seems unfair and factually incorrect to assert that these two attempts were made by "the left", doesn't it?

That's true, although the left made him more of a target by spreading constant lies about him.

Viral Video Rant: A woman’s video went viral on X, where she expressed frustration, saying, “We were a centimeter away from half of the problem being gone and you MISSED.” This post, shared by @DailyLoud
on July 15, 2024, sparked significant backlash for its explicit disappointment over the failed attempt.

In the aftermath there were comments such as “I will sing in the streets,” or “It will be a national holiday in my home forever,” in reference to the prospect of Trump’s death. A person at a protest held a sign wishing Trump dead, regretting that the assassin “missed” and hoping for another attempt. Another wrote, “damn, they missed” (which cost the poster her job).

There's also been talk about the "need" to kill Musk too.

An NCRI survey found that 48.6% of left-of-center respondents believed murdering Elon Musk was “at least somewhat justified,” and 55.2% felt the same about Donald Trump.

I can't support murder, even of a dangerous lunatic like Trump. And my understanding of American culture and politics is ... close to non-existent. To me, it is a lunatic morasse of consumption, in pursuit of profit. And I am fairly sure that a deeper understanding than mine is required if meaningful and useful discussion is to be possible.

But I do remember, in my own UK, the celebrations, and even a bit of dancing in the streets, when Margaret Thatcher died. "Ding, dong, the witch is dead!" 🎆🎉🎊 I still did not stoop to thoughts of murder, but I found myself sympathising with the cheering groups.

It's not always easy to stick with principles when the real world mixes everything up, together. 😉

"Dangerous lunatic"is already just an echo chamber view pushed by mainstream media, mostly based on lies and misrepresentations.

Trump is far from that. I was sucked in for years by those lies but have since found they are wrong. What alerted me to this was finding out that Trump did not praise Nazis in Charlottesville, and his comments had been universally misreported by mainstream media. Reporters took a snippet and cut out one of the key things he said in that speech.

Trump said, "You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists—because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists".

Note that the latter part of the statement was snipped, giving the false impression that he was including Nazis as "fine people".

Also the Musk "Nazi" salute, which was clearly the final part of his gesture meaning "my hear goes out to you". Yet many have doubled down, insisting that he's a Nazi.

There are many more instances, including the, well, trumped-up "lawfare" conducted against him. It's easy to find charges of most people if you spend millions "fishing" for apparent wrongdoings.

If you sympathised with celebrations of Thatcher's death, that's a sign that you are ideologically owned.

After a lifetime on a left, I have come to realise that any position other than centrism is effectively anti-philosophical. Today, centrist positions (such as not approving of mass immigration Ponzi schemes) are frequently labelled as "far right" by the media, academics and other captured leftists. In the past, a centrist position like gay marriage was treated as extreme leftism by the right rather than an illogical exclusion.

[LuckyR]

And the percentage of the MAGA crowd who want Hillary dead is what?

But Republicans are not claiming to be the party of love and compassion while that is how Democrats and Greens hypocritically position themselves.

So killing innocents is consistent with the Law and Order party?

And don't get me started on nominating a multiply convicted felon...

[Pattern-chaser]

"Dangerous lunatic"is already just an echo chamber view pushed by mainstream media, mostly based on lies and misrepresentations.

I think attacking the global financial market, via trade tariffs, was/is pretty dangerous. It could still lead to a complete collapse of global trade, and if that happened, I think it is reasonable to describe the consequences as world-changing, at least from a human point of view. A dangerous lunatic, I think. Your opinion is different, as you have described.

[Sy Borg]

And the percentage of the MAGA crowd who want Hillary dead is what?

But Republicans are not claiming to be the party of love and compassion while that is how Democrats and Greens hypocritically position themselves.

So killing innocents is consistent with the Law and Order party?

And don't get me started on nominating a multiply convicted felon...

"Killing innocents?". The Republicans would say that's what Democrats are doing with abortion.

Both are weak arguments, lacking any nuance or depth. Point scorers.

As for "convicted felon", that's the result of lawfare, like the outrageous treatment of Marine Le Pen in France. The charges were the result of "fishing" for political purposes, not good governance. I am sure the Biden family would also become "convicted felons" if the same political skulduggery was applied. And the Obamas. And the Pelosis.

None of them are clean. Again, you are not speaking with any measure of objectivity, of philosophical thinking - just cheap partisanship, about tabloid standard.

[Sy Borg]

"Dangerous lunatic"is already just an echo chamber view pushed by mainstream media, mostly based on lies and misrepresentations.

I think attacking the global financial market, via trade tariffs, was/is pretty dangerous. It could still lead to a complete collapse of global trade, and if that happened, I think it is reasonable to describe the consequences as world-changing, at least from a human point of view. A dangerous lunatic, I think. Your opinion is different, as you have described. 👍

Trump representing his US voters, not global concerns. Xi has done a thousand attacks on the global system to favour China, leveraging China's power on behalf of the Chinese, not the globe. Any criticisms here or from the mainstream media? No. Nor do I hear criticisms of China's IP theft, that has harmed innovation by reducing the value of patents.

All Trump is doing is leveraging US US power on behalf of Americans, not the globe.

The fact is, if your opponent is a streetfighter and you are fighting by Marquess of Queensberry rules, then you are going to lose, and that's what's been happening in the US for the last two decades or more. The US is stronger than China but it's been acting as though it's weaker.

There will be no collapse of global trade. That's ridiculous scaremongering by a deeply corrupt mainstream media protecting its corrupt interests. Eight billion people - and rapidly growing - need to consume, so trade will continue as always, only the trade links will change. Nations are looking for different trading partners. In the past, these decisions were made purely on the lowest price. Now national security is being considered.

There is also a recognition outsourcing jobs to lower wage economies has serious downsides - as workers pointed out forty years ago to deaf ears.