Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Sy Borg]

If you don't understand what GDP per capita means, you probably should not be speaking on global politics.

You see, GDP is only one measure - that of a nation's total wealth. GDP per capita refers to the average wealth of each citizen.

So, for instance, Australia has been allowing in a world record number (per capita) of migrants for a few years now. This boosts overall GDP, and the government uses this boost to claim that their irresponsible policies have not put Australia into recession.

Now let's look at GDP per capita https://www.reddit.com/r/AusEcon/commen ... e_decline/

In terms of GDP per capita - average wealth per person - Australia has been in recession for a number of years, a fact that is realised by rapidly increasing homelessness, increased personal financial stress and requests for help. Now, many people can't afford to buy - or even rent - a home because prices have risen enormously. Why? Supply and demand. If you rapidly add extra millions of migrants at a time when there's already a housing squeeze, you destroy your own people's lives.

The POTUS is attempting to boost US productivity. If he succeeds, most Americans will be better off - certainly better off than stifling productivity with socialist policies and a lunatic lack of border control. I wish Australia had a leader that aimed to fix the systemic issues that stand in the way of actual progress, but few have the courage because the media would torch them - just as they did with Trump and Milei.

BTW, did you notice that when Milei first enacted his policies, and there was much trouble in transition (as there always are) the mainstream media was all over him. Now that his policies are working, and Argentina no longer has a catastrophic inflation rate .... *crickets*

[Count Lucanor]

Please answer the question: If America is failing, then why are so many people trying to come here, risking their lives to do so? I don't see people swarming any other country's border to enter. If they did, most countries would not let them in anyway. We have always had an open border and have been most welcoming, until criminals have recently taken advantage and millions of people who were not vetted entered. I applaud the effort to drive criminals out and finally keep citizens safe.

By far, the biggest group of immigrants to the US comes from Mexico, then follows El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. All poor countries at relatively close distance. This is a particular phenomenon of the region that shows US relations with its neighbors. In comparison, when adjusted by population, more irregulars have been entering Europe.

[Fried Egg]

Sometimes two things can be true at once.

Many people want to get to America because they believe their lives will be better.

America is living well beyond it's means and economic collapse might well be on the horizon.

In other words, people shouldn't be too re-assured by how many people are trying to emigrate to their country.

[popeye1945]

America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950. As an empire, America has been a cruel master. It created a mythology of itself that is unrealistic, and the world knows this only too well. It has made the same mistakes that past empires have historically made and is coming to its demise as a result. It did not gain any wisdom from the failures of Napolean or the Nazi's Third Reich and has turned its aggression against Russia. Thinking as Hitler did, we just have to kick the door down, and it will self-destruct, and like Hitler, they were in for some surprises. Like the Third Reich, world domination is its goal, and such a mindset induces a pathological mentality. America has terrorized and abused much of the world with its immense power, and the world waited and prepared for a day of reckoning, which is now upon us. America, like the empires of the past, has overextended itself, surrounding other countries with military bases and then calling them the aggressors; it has spent itself and displayed to the world its weaknesses. While the American empire was terrorizing and weaponizing the dollar, much of the world was getting creative and leaving the West behind in technological advancements. Ignorance and arrogance bring down empires, characteristics of unlimited power. The goal of much of the world is to see the end of empire and an end to Western colonialism . A multipolar world instead of an unipolar world with the American empire as its dictator. If we see the end of this American empire, we will inherit a saner world, one of cooperating nations instead of violent exploitation by the most powerful nation in the world.

[Pattern-chaser]

If you don't understand what GDP per capita means, you probably should not be speaking on global politics.

Well, yes.

You see, GDP is only one measure - that of a nation's total wealth. GDP per capita refers to the average wealth of each citizen.

So, for instance, Australia has been allowing in a world record number (per capita) of migrants for a few years now. This boosts overall GDP, and the government uses this boost to claim that their irresponsible policies have not put Australia into recession.

Now let's look at GDP per capita https://www.reddit.com/r/AusEcon/commen ... e_decline/

In terms of GDP per capita - average wealth per person - Australia has been in recession for a number of years, a fact that is realised by rapidly increasing homelessness, increased personal financial stress and requests for help. Now, many people can't afford to buy - or even rent - a home because prices have risen enormously. Why? Supply and demand. If you rapidly add extra millions of migrants at a time when there's already a housing squeeze, you destroy your own people's lives.

The POTUS is attempting to boost US productivity. If he succeeds, most Americans will be better off - certainly better off than stifling productivity with socialist policies and a lunatic lack of border control. I wish Australia had a leader that aimed to fix the systemic issues that stand in the way of actual progress, but few have the courage because the media would torch them - just as they did with Trump and Milei.

BTW, did you notice that when Milei first enacted his policies, and there was much trouble in transition (as there always are) the mainstream media was all over him. Now that his policies are working, and Argentina no longer has a catastrophic inflation rate .... *crickets*

I'm no expert on this, but those who are, seem to think of GDP a little differently,

Gross domestic product (GDP) is a measure of the size and health of a country’s economy over a period (usually one quarter or one year). We also use it to compare the size of different economies at different points in time.
How is it calculated?

To measure GDP each quarter, the Office for National Statistics Opens in a new window (ONS) collects data from thousands of companies in the UK. And to complicate matters, there are three ways to measure it:

• the total value of goods and services (output) produced
• everyone in the country’s income
• or what everyone in the country has spent

These are three ways to estimate the same thing. You get different figures depending on which method you use because there is never enough data to build a picture of the economy that is 100% complete.

The last one – total spending – is perhaps the most familiar ...

I *THINK* this is saying that GDP measures earnings (of a person, or a country), not their wealth?

[Darlyn McCormick]

I will take my chances with this president. There is no "one" measure. This problem was not created overnight. Conjecture is fantasy and plants false narratives. Inequality is a communist measure, with a wish that all will live wanting for nothing. It never worked. We are all different. Our nation is open for equal opportunity and what you do with it will not be equal in the end. With that said, I agree that not everything is sunshine and butterflies. We have problems here. I don't like the democrats and I don't like the republicans. Government programs never fixed anything, only makes it worse. If one could truly be a libertarian, I would be. Smaller government for all and leave me alone. That was when there were fewer people, but living areas are dense now. I don't like big government and no, we don't have true capitalism as it was intended. Someone has to try and it sure was not anyone from the previous 50 years. I am going to be patient, it takes time. I am also done listening to the people who told us everything was fine for the last 4 years. They began the beginning of the year screaming about the price of eggs and they have only gotten more out of touch since.

[Mo_reese]

America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950. As an empire, America has been a cruel master. It created a mythology of itself that is unrealistic, and the world knows this only too well. It has made the same mistakes that past empires have historically made and is coming to its demise as a result. It did not gain any wisdom from the failures of Napolean or the Nazi's Third Reich and has turned its aggression against Russia. Thinking as Hitler did, we just have to kick the door down, and it will self-destruct, and like Hitler, they were in for some surprises. Like the Third Reich, world domination is its goal, and such a mindset induces a pathological mentality. America has terrorized and abused much of the world with its immense power, and the world waited and prepared for a day of reckoning, which is now upon us. America, like the empires of the past, has overextended itself, surrounding other countries with military bases and then calling them the aggressors; it has spent itself and displayed to the world its weaknesses. While the American empire was terrorizing and weaponizing the dollar, much of the world was getting creative and leaving the West behind in technological advancements. Ignorance and arrogance bring down empires, characteristics of unlimited power. The goal of much of the world is to see the end of empire and an end to Western colonialism . A multipolar world instead of an unipolar world with the American empire as its dictator. If we see the end of this American empire, we will inherit a saner world, one of cooperating nations instead of violent exploitation by the most powerful nation in the world.

The question is "Why America is Failing". I think you summed it up quite well.

[popeye1945]

America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950. As an empire, America has been a cruel master. It created a mythology of itself that is unrealistic, and the world knows this only too well. It has made the same mistakes that past empires have historically made and is coming to its demise as a result. It did not gain any wisdom from the failures of Napolean or the Nazi's Third Reich and has turned its aggression against Russia. Thinking as Hitler did, we just have to kick the door down, and it will self-destruct, and like Hitler, they were in for some surprises. Like the Third Reich, world domination is its goal, and such a mindset induces a pathological mentality. America has terrorized and abused much of the world with its immense power, and the world waited and prepared for a day of reckoning, which is now upon us. America, like the empires of the past, has overextended itself, surrounding other countries with military bases and then calling them the aggressors; it has spent itself and displayed to the world its weaknesses. While the American empire was terrorizing and weaponizing the dollar, much of the world was getting creative and leaving the West behind in technological advancements. Ignorance and arrogance bring down empires, characteristics of unlimited power. The goal of much of the world is to see the end of empire and an end to Western colonialism . A multipolar world instead of an unipolar world with the American empire as its dictator. If we see the end of this American empire, we will inherit a saner world, one of cooperating nations instead of violent exploitation by the most powerful nation in the world.

The question is "Why America is Failing". I think you summed it up quite well.

Well, thank you, it comes as a bit of a surprise. I was expecting hostility. Nice to get some positive feedback, thanks again.

[Mo_reese]

This is in response to Popeye1945 post above.

Some are saying that the American people are getting what they deserve. President Eisenhower warned us about the Military Industrial Complex (MIC) but we didn't listen.
I remember the Vietnam Massacre, where almost 60,000 American service members killed. Approx 500,000 Vietnamese troops killed. 6,000 other troops killed. Estimates of civilian deaths up to 2 million. Plus millions wounded. Unknown how many civilians suffered from after effects of the chemical warfare incl agent orange. For what? For MIC profits of course and the blood money paid to the politicians. Also probably to show Russia just who was the Big Dog on the block. Who was the new Empire. The US had nuclear weapons and knew how to use them.

[Mo_reese]

This is in response to Pattern-Chaser's post above

I would like to add that when our politicians speak of the economy, they are only referring to how well the wealthy are doing as the GDP and the stock market measure.
Never do they mention the "P" word. They figure that maybe no one will notice the poverty or homelessness. I don't believe the wealthy actually want the poor to die, but they just don't care if they do. DT's new Big Beautiful Death Bill that transfers wealth from the lower 99% to the top 1% will increase poverty and homelessness. And cutting Medicaid will see nursing homes literally putting people out on the street. It has to be very sick people that can see that happening and not care. They have no compassion or empathy. Somehow greed has replace empathy in the MAGA mind.

[Fried Egg]

DT's new Big Beautiful Death Bill that transfers wealth from the lower 99% to the top 1% will increase poverty and homelessness.

That's not really true - it's a statement that only makes sense when you see economics (as many on the left do) as a zero sum game. Working people, even those on the very lowest of incomes will be better off as a result of this bill (thanks to the rises in personal allowance and reducing tax on tips and overtime).

The biggest problem with the bill as that it is far from fully funded in that it is just going to make America's budget deficit much worse (in the short term at least).

[Mo_reese]

If you don't understand what GDP per capita means, you probably should not be speaking on global politics.

I couldn't agree more. But I didn't mention the GDP per capita because it is absolutely meaningless. It isn't at all related to the wealth of citizens.

I did explain how the GDP was determined and for example government spending is a major factor. So if the government increases spending, like for weapons for exterminating Palestinians, that shows as an increase in the GDP yet the quality of life for the people hasn't improved.

When politicians and the corporate owned media mention the economy it has nothing to do with the 99% of the people. It doesn't show when the following get worse: homelessness, unemployment, wage growth, labor force participation rate, medical costs and bankruptcies, the life expectancy decrease, housing costs, and increases in tax burden.

The POTUS is attempting to boost US productivity. If he succeeds, most Americans will be better off - certainly better off than stifling productivity with socialist policies and a lunatic lack of border control. I wish Australia had a leader that aimed to fix the systemic issues that stand in the way of actual progress, but few have the courage because the media would torch them - just as they did with Trump and Milei.

In DT first term he gave big business massive tax breaks and it didn't have any effect on productivity. Why? Because the businesses are not under any obligation as to how they spend the money and they give executives bonuses and had stock buy-backs. If someone wants Medicaid for their health, they have to prove they need it but no constraints for businesses.

[Mo_reese]

DT's new Big Beautiful Death Bill that transfers wealth from the lower 99% to the top 1% will increase poverty and homelessness.

That's not really true - it's a statement that only makes sense when you see economics (as many on the left do) as a zero sum game. Working people, even those on the very lowest of incomes will be better off as a result of this bill (thanks to the rises in personal allowance and reducing tax on tips and overtime).

The biggest problem with the bill as that it is far from fully funded in that it is just going to make America's budget deficit much worse (in the short term at least).

And estimated 11 million people will lose their healthcare coverage. An estimated 750,000 nursing home residents will not be able to afford care. Hundreds of facilities will close. Many have no where to go but the street or jail.
The US has the worst medical care outcomes of all modern nations and this will make it much, much worse. Medical costs will increase with the new burden.

Note: The trillion dollar tax breaks for the wealthy are made permanent while the tax break on tips is only for 3 years.

[Sy Borg]

If you don't understand what GDP per capita means, you probably should not be speaking on global politics.

I couldn't agree more. But I didn't mention the GDP per capita because it is absolutely meaningless. It isn't at all related to the wealth of citizens.

I did explain how the GDP was determined and for example government spending is a major factor. So if the government increases spending, like for weapons ... that shows as an increase in the GDP yet the quality of life for the people hasn't improved.

When politicians and the corporate owned media mention the economy it has nothing to do with the 99% of the people. It doesn't show when the following get worse: homelessness, unemployment, wage growth, labor force participation rate, medical costs and bankruptcies, the life expectancy decrease, housing costs, and increases in tax burden.

You clearly do not understand GDP per capita. It is highly significant. I note that you expect a single metric to cover all aspects of a society. I provided a range of metrics that shows how, in no area, is the US amongst the worst nations. That's why millions are queuing to live there, while they are not aiming to migrate to many less functional nations.

While any nation will suffer when they allow millions of illegal immigrants to flood the country, the US is still going better than most other nations. To say it's failing only shows your biases.

Consider this post I saw online today:

As an immigrant living in the United States, I often find it challenging to relate to many Americans who were born and raised here. There seems to be a general lack of awareness about how difficult life can be in many parts of the world, and that lack of perspective inevitably influences cultural values, moral decisions, and even basic expectations.

Before settling in the U.S., I had the opportunity to live and work in several different countries. Because of that, I tend to stay quiet during certain discussions—especially when I realize that many people simply don’t understand how fortunate they are to live here.

And while I recognize that poverty and homelessness exist in America, I have to be honest: in many cases, those outcomes are more often the result of poor decisions than a lack of opportunity. This is still a country where people arrive with nothing and, through hard work, manage to build a comfortable and stable life.

The POTUS is attempting to boost US productivity. If he succeeds, most Americans will be better off - certainly better off than stifling productivity with socialist policies and a lunatic lack of border control. I wish Australia had a leader that aimed to fix the systemic issues that stand in the way of actual progress, but few have the courage because the media would torch them - just as they did with Trump and Milei.

In DT first term he gave big business massive tax breaks and it didn't have any effect on productivity. Why? Because the businesses are not under any obligation as to how they spend the money and they give executives bonuses and had stock buy-backs. If someone wants Medicaid for their health, they have to prove they need it but no constraints for businesses.

It spurred some productivity but the positive effects were indeed muted by cynical corporate practices. However, to claim this as evidence that the US is "failing", when so many developed nations are doing far worse, is not only wrong, but miles off the mark.

One could argue that the US is a fading empire, but it has a long way to go before it fades to the extent of Great Britain.

[popeye1945]

This is in response to Popeye1945 post above.

Some are saying that the American people are getting what they deserve. President Eisenhower warned us about the Military Industrial Complex (MIC) but we didn't listen.
I remember the Vietnam Massacre, where almost 60,000 American service members killed. Approx 500,000 Vietnamese troops killed. 6,000 other troops killed. Estimates of civilian deaths up to 2 million. Plus millions wounded. Unknown how many civilians suffered from the after-effects of the chemical warfare, including Agent Orange. For what? For MIC profits of course and the blood money paid to the politicians. Also probably to show Russia just who was the Big Dog on the block. Who was the new Empire? The US had nuclear weapons and knew how to use them.

As I stated elsewhere, America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950. In the time since the Second World War, America has effectively indoctrinated the population with a completely unreal mythology of itself and its peoples, to the point where it is an insane wildcard in global politics, self-righteous in the crimes it commits against humanity itself. One does not hold the insane individual responsible for their actions; the same might be said of a nation. It is, however, obvious that one cannot let a mad dog run through the schoolyard; it must be stopped at all costs. What is taking place now with the rise of the BRICS federation of nations is a quest for the end of empire and Western colonialism, which I consider social evolution. The question is, will we survive this transformation, which seems to depend on America doing a reality check, which seems highly unlikely. By the way, I failed to answer your private message. They are having problems with program glitches, so I mentioned it here. I am a Canadian, but the government here supports American and Israeli policies, or should I say Israeli policies.