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Does Trump Want To Be President?

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Steve3007
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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Steve3007 » January 31st, 2017, 4:47 am

LOL
I guess hindsight is a wonderful thing.

The CEO of IBM (allegedly said):
I think there is a world market for maybe five computers.
LOL.


Personally I'm hoping that the old saying "comedy = tragedy + time" will remain true. It worked for Mel Brookes.

Dolphin42
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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Dolphin42 » February 6th, 2017, 6:19 am

Now that there is open warfare between President Donald Trump and the US judiciary, does anybody have any predictions as to who will win?

President Trump has made it clear what he thinks of judge James Robart for contradicting him. He has stated that if any terrorist attacks happen now they will be his personal fault. If any atrocities do indeed happen in the next couple of months it wouldn't be hard to whip up public anger with more of this incendiary talk. If I were Mr Robart I think I would be extremely nervous that a person with the vindictiveness of Donald Trump and the power of a president is gunning for me. We've seen, at his rallies, how Trump has used the power of the mob to intimidate journalists who he thinks have criticised him. Imagine what he could do if he could claim that this judge is directly responsible for a mass killing? How long do we think this judge will last under this kind of pressure?

Do you think Trump will achieve his evident aim of abolishing the separation of powers and consolidating power in his hands alone in the People's Democratic Republic of America?

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Grunth » February 6th, 2017, 6:57 am

Dolphin42 wrote:Now that there is open warfare between President Donald Trump and the US judiciary, does anybody have any predictions as to who will win?

President Trump has made it clear what he thinks of judge James Robart for contradicting him. He has stated that if any terrorist attacks happen now they will be his personal fault. If any atrocities do indeed happen in the next couple of months it wouldn't be hard to whip up public anger with more of this incendiary talk. If I were Mr Robart I think I would be extremely nervous that a person with the vindictiveness of Donald Trump and the power of a president is gunning for me. We've seen, at his rallies, how Trump has used the power of the mob to intimidate journalists who he thinks have criticised him. Imagine what he could do if he could claim that this judge is directly responsible for a mass killing? How long do we think this judge will last under this kind of pressure?

Do you think Trump will achieve his evident aim of abolishing the separation of powers and consolidating power in his hands alone in the People's Democratic Republic of America?
It is all going along swimmingly. He is only meeting the expected resistance. The 'mob' is the left, by the way. 'Mobbing' campuses to shut down invited speakers, etc. The physical attacks on attendees to such events along with what has become typical destruction of buildings and property is mere evidence of an Obama/Clinton legacy. Once police forces feel safe, from Democrat mayors, Democrat judges, and other eventual has-beens of power, they will get behind their new president and begin to bring about order. It may take a year or so, but that is just how rotten and odious the Obama/Clinton legacy is and was.

Dolphin42
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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Dolphin42 » February 6th, 2017, 8:10 am

OK, so we have one who thinks that Trump will win.

Anyone else?

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Grunth » February 6th, 2017, 8:21 am

Dolphin42 wrote:OK, so we have one who thinks that Trump will win.

Anyone else?
This is what is obvious. The loser side instigates and inspires chaos to make it look like that chaos will be the legacy of the winners (a self-fulfilling prophecy). The winners, however, only want to take the reigns, which they had won, and start to do the job according to what they had promised to do. It could be a peaceful transition, but if the left's (losers) inspired and instigated chaos ensues then the real revolution must begin with the inevitable crack-downs on unlawful dissent.

So it is either a peaceful revolution or a violent one. THAT choice is the losers.

-- Updated February 7th, 2017, 1:31 am to add the following --

Apparently Trump was offside with the CIA before he took office. And this would be true. But he, of course, was only offside with the leadership of the CIA. The CIA leadership that knew they would be outgoing and replaced. So what happens when Trump meets the CIA staff? Well, they give him a very warm welcome. It would appear that the CIA workers had little respect for their leaders and quite probably welcome leadership they can respect.

The same will be the case for the military, and then eventually the police forces, border patrols, etc. Interesting times.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Dolphin42 » February 6th, 2017, 11:21 am

Interesting indeed. I suspect that's one of the few things almost everyone can agree on.

What's most interesting to me in this case is the implications for the whole philosophy behind the idea of the separation of powers and the reasons why it is generally considered important for the judiciary to be independent. And the whole concept of interpreting written laws and constitutions in a non-political way.

As we know, of the three branches of the US federal government, the judiciary is the one whose decisions should in theory be the most narrowly deterministic. Their job is not to make political decisions, based on their political philosophies and those of their constituencies. They shouldn't have constituencies. Their job is to apply the law and the Constitution to the political decisions made by the other two branches. In theory, this should be a deterministic process but in practice we all know that the application of the law and the Constitution requires interpretation. A process into which partisan political views seep.

In theory, if the president's executive order is unlawful then this should be demonstrable so that, at least in principle, it can be seen by all. Like a mathematical proof. It should be a fact, not an opinion. Washington Attorney General Bob Ferguson said: "At the end of the day, either you're abiding by the Constitution or you are not". He clearly thinks that this is a matter of establishing an objective fact, not of various people expressing political opinions.

But clearly it isn't a fact. The question of whether it is lawful provokes fierce debate. Political debate.

In looking into this, another interesting related thing I've discovered is the different schools of thought that exist in the US in interpreting the US constitution. I've read that Trump's recent nominee for the supreme court, Neil Gorsuch, is an "originalist" with respect to the interpretation of the US constitution. It all sounds a lot like different schools of thought in interpreting the Bible.

It's a huge and fascinating subject and I think I'll start a new topic about it.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Fooloso4 » February 6th, 2017, 4:37 pm

Dolphin42:
It's a huge and fascinating subject and I think I'll start a new topic about it.
I am looking forward to it. Hermeneutics and the interpretation of texts is of great interest to me.



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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Dolphin42 » February 6th, 2017, 5:49 pm

I am looking forward to it. Hermeneutics and the interpretation of texts is of great interest to me.
Mmmm. When I said it's a huge and fascinating subject I wasn't so much talking about the preceding sentence. More the whole separation of judiciary, executive and legislature thing.

That is a great scene from Annie Hall though.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Fooloso4 » February 6th, 2017, 6:46 pm

Dolphin42:
… the whole separation of judiciary, executive and legislature thing.
The following from today’s NYT might be of interest. "Executive Power Run Amok":

nytimes.com/2017/02/06/opinion/executiv ... 1&_r=0

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Grunth » February 8th, 2017, 3:13 am

Trump Listens to Obama-Clinton on Immigration (except, maybe he will be different by actually trying to do what he says he wants to do).

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Empiricist-Bruno » December 1st, 2018, 2:03 pm

With the insight of an extra year, I would like to comment on the opening post. Yes, you were right, Trump is a business person and sought to improve it by entering the Presidential race. For him, winning the presidency meant he could do sweet deals for the Saudis and hope to get well rewarded by them in the future, fiancially speaking. By the way, this is why is first state visit was in Saudi Arabia. This is why he is nice to Putin. This is why he puts America #2. It all make sense now with hindsight. Deslite holding the title of POTUS he isn't a President and never has been. He just saw a deal that he felt good about and aimed for it just as any astute shopper would do. But the US is catching up to this. I think he will continue to want to be president as long as he can, for his good friends in Russia and Saudi Arabia and because I believe he can see no more important job that he can get in America than the one of using the presidency.
All you need is love- (But not the one from narcissists)

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Steve3007 » December 6th, 2018, 11:22 am

I agree that it's interesting to look at the OP of this topic with the benefit of the little bit of hindsight that we now have.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 70046.html

In private, at least, Trump seems to be perfectly open about the fact that, if given the chance, he will bankrupt the country for the sake of his own personal short term popularity, printing money and running up debt to fuel a short term economic boom on the assumption that he'll be out of office when the bust comes, and it can therefore be blamed on someone else. He's explicitly said this.

Looking at the state of major US stock indices over the last year, he may have to be careful that the bust doesn't come while he's still in office. Or maybe not. In politics it is always, always possible to blame someone else.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by UniversalAlien » December 6th, 2018, 10:34 pm

Lets tell it as it is.......

Years ago before some of you were even born - There was a best selling book called "The Money Game"
by Adam Smith {a pseudonym}

One statement in the book I'll never forget - He defined our economic system as "Socialism of the rich"

And that sums it up.

They just buried President Bush {the First Bush President} - Know the family history of the Bush clan?
- Big money going way back - Socialists of the rich.

And Obama, the Clintons, etc. - Socialists of the middle and lower classes - Who as a matter of fact
became quite well to do, though not super rich, while working their brand of Socialism.

And how much difference does it really make? - People vote because they 'feel' one group, one candidate
will benefit them more than the other.

The President Bush just buried lost because the economy was weak and Bill Clinton, if nothing else,
was a master of giving good speeches - And even while the seedy impeachment hearings were going
on to impeach him he remained popular in the poles - The economy was good.

Unless they {the Democrats} can prove without a reasonable doubt that Trump was guilty of
'High crimes and misdemeanors' {impeachable offenses}

- If the economy is doing well, he will win again in the next election.

Today the politics of America, probably the World, is one form of Socialism vs. another form of Socialism.
- And the slicker the political politician and his party machine - the more likely he is to win.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by Belindi » December 7th, 2018, 9:01 am

If anyone wants above all else to make a lot of money and /or personal power it must be all to his advantage to be President of the USA.I guess Trump really really wants to be President as long as he can wring a personal advantage from it.

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Re: Does Trump Want To Be President?

Post by UniversalAlien » December 7th, 2018, 10:21 pm

Belindi wrote:
December 7th, 2018, 9:01 am
If anyone wants above all else to make a lot of money and /or personal power it must be all to his advantage to be President of the USA.I guess Trump really really wants to be President as long as he can wring a personal advantage from it.
Some truth to that - More than that he actually likes, even maybe loves, the job - the power, the prestige
- That is one, maybe even the main, reason 'they' hate him so much.

Again 'they' always want a US President to feel guilty, guilty about America's wealth and power
- They want a 'New World Order' where America should feel no different than the third world, which
admittedly the main world powers still exploit even while also helping them.

America wasted a good part of my generation in Vietnam and maybe should feel guilty about it
- Destroyed Iraq in a war that seems to go on for ever and should feel guilty about that.

But I don't think you can blame Trump for that - One reason he won is that he appeared to be the outsider
businessman not the machine politician that Clinton was.

Of course once he got in to office he is realizing the machine still rules.

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