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Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Discuss any topics related to metaphysics (the philosophical study of the principles of reality) or epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) in this forum.
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syednoorhussain
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Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Post by syednoorhussain » April 15th, 2018, 1:54 pm

1- the universe existed forever without any beginning,
--Why do we find only limited historical civilization evidence?
--If infinite time had passed before this point,wouldn't civilization had gone way ahead and alot of things would have already happened.

2- Universe does have a begining
--Lets assume the time that has elapsed from the beginning of the universe to be 1.5 billion years. So why did the universe wait an infinity to begin, and why at that particular moment.
--Logically speaking nothing stops it from being created 4 or 5 billion years ago, it had all infinity to begin.
--Any amount of time could have passed at this very particular moment of my writing this .


Please discuss.I am trapped in these questions. Can anyone point to philosophers who discussed these issues. Thanks

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Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Post by Thinking critical » April 16th, 2018, 7:09 am

1) Our Universe has a beginning, it can be traced back to roughly less than 1 to 10th of a second from its origins.

2)Spacetime is intrinsic to the Universe, there is no before the beginning or we couldn't call it the beginning.
This cocky little cognitive contortionist will straighten you right out

Wayne92587
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Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Post by Wayne92587 » April 16th, 2018, 1:34 pm

There was a Time before the beginning of differentiated Time.

There is a primary substance from which the whole of the Material World of Reality has been made manifest.

The Beginning of Differentiated Time began at the Zero-0 Hour with the Creation of the Reality of First Cause.
The priori knowledge of this substance has provided many Names for this primordial Substance.

What name do you give this Primordial Substance?

The Great Void, Nothingness, the Ether, God, the Firmament? .

The Primary Substance exists as an omniscient Infinitely Finite, Indivisible Quantum Singularity having no relative numerical value, having a numerical value of Zero-0, forming a Omniscient State, Field, of Random, quantum Singularities; Time and motion in Space standing Still.

Time, Space and Motion also existing as individual Singularities having no relative, numerical value, having a numerical value of zero-0, existing without angular momentum, velocity of speed and direction, being Motionless, unchanging.

Creation began with a spontaneous change in the nature of the Motion of an the primordial Singularity of Zero-0,

Caused by a bump in the Night, a Fully Random Singularity of Zero-0 attained angular momentum, velocity of Speed and Direction, became transcendental.

The Primordial Singularity of Zero-0, as with the Singularity of Time, within the Great Void, being motionless, having no angular momentum, no velocity of speed and direction, not being measurable as to location and momentum in either Time or Space.

Creation beginning with the differentiation of Time in Space at the Zero-0 Hour.

How do you describe a substance that can not be experience? Perhaps, Nothingness, the Great Void.
The knowledge of a substance that can not be experienced is the Knowledge of Reality as it existed in the beginning, prior to the moment of Creation.

This priori Knowledge is a Substance called God, God existing as the Whole of Reality, as Reality existed prior to the moment of Creation.

This post is so long that I will have to say, “to be continued.”

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Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Post by Karpel Tunnel » April 17th, 2018, 2:22 am

Thinking critical wrote:
April 16th, 2018, 7:09 am
1) Our Universe has a beginning, it can be traced back to roughly less than 1 to 10th of a second from its origins.

2)Spacetime is intrinsic to the Universe, there is no before the beginning or we couldn't call it the beginning.
Some cosmologists believe something like this. Some believe their are cycles of crunches and bangs. Some think that in the greater universe smaller universes like ours arise and disappear. Some...there is no clear consensus about the wider context about that long ago expansion. There used to be more of one, but not anymore.

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Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Post by Wayne92587 » April 17th, 2018, 2:45 am

Zero-0 proceeds the beginning of a series that begins with One-1.

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Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Post by Wayne92587 » April 17th, 2018, 2:51 am

Zero-0 is a holding place, the starting point.

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Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Post by Windrammer » April 18th, 2018, 3:48 am

Causality is a quality perceived in our conscious experience, it's not a quality of the universe itself. All events of past and future just "are" and there can be a nonsensical and spontaneous first cause with no prior cause. Events without cause occur all the time at the quantum level.

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Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Post by Eduk » April 18th, 2018, 7:06 pm

Infinity is much larger than a long time.
Existing forever is impossible. Beginning is impossible. Therefore the answer is 3, unknown.
Unknown means unknown.

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Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Post by Greta » April 18th, 2018, 7:12 pm

It's hard to say because I wasn't present at the Big Bang,

Actually, I was in a way - we all were - but we were seemingly too busy inflating or whatever to pay attention :)

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Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Post by Fooloso4 » April 18th, 2018, 8:45 pm

Syednoorhussain:
1- the universe existed forever without any beginning,
--Why do we find only limited historical civilization evidence?
The only evidence of civilization is from human life on earth. The earth has a beginning as does human life, but their age is not coextensive.
--If infinite time had passed before this point,wouldn't civilization had gone way ahead and alot of things would have already happened.
It is possible that civilization elsewhere has developed far beyond any civilization on earth. We just have no evidence of it given its distance from us. This may be the case whether the universe has a beginning or not.
2- Universe does have a begining
--Lets assume the time that has elapsed from the beginning of the universe to be 1.5 billion years. So why did the universe wait an infinity to begin, and why at that particular moment.
This assumes that before the beginning there was something waiting. The term infinity in time has no meaning if time has elapsed only from the beginning of the universe. A “particular moment” only has sense within time.
--Logically speaking nothing stops it from being created 4 or 5 billion years ago, it had all infinity to begin.
If there were conditions out of which the universe began then it is possible that one or more universes came into existence prior to ours and either failed to sustain themselves or they exist at a distance too far away from us to detect them.
--Any amount of time could have passed at this very particular moment of my writing this .
This is ambiguous. ‘Any amount of time’ might mean one minute or one billion eons or time without measure.

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Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Post by Thinking critical » April 19th, 2018, 5:36 am

Windrammer wrote:
April 18th, 2018, 3:48 am
Causality is a quality perceived in our conscious experience, it's not a quality of the universe itself. All events of past and future just "are" and there can be a nonsensical and spontaneous first cause with no prior cause. Events without cause occur all the time at the quantum level.
This is a great point Windrammer, the causality principal breaks down at a quantum level. Causality can be demonstrated to be seen as simply patterns and algorithms in which we have the capacity to recognise. The fact that our sensors interact with reality at a macro level (which essentially follows the laws of causality) is potentially why we struggle to comprehend the concept of an uncaused, cause.
It's not that the proposition of uncaused, cause is illogical, it maybe that the nature of such things lays beyond the faculties of our mind?
This cocky little cognitive contortionist will straighten you right out

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Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Post by Wayne92587 » April 19th, 2018, 1:33 pm

The First in a Series of events that has become known to be Cause and Effect was actually and Effect, the Reality of First Cause being an Effect born of an Affect.

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Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Post by Karpel Tunnel » April 20th, 2018, 7:20 am

Wayne92587 wrote:
April 19th, 2018, 1:33 pm
The First in a Series of events that has become known to be Cause and Effect was actually and Effect, the Reality of First Cause being an Effect born of an Affect.
Could be, but it is very hard to know what that means.

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Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Post by Halc » April 21st, 2018, 3:22 pm

syednoorhussain wrote:
April 15th, 2018, 1:54 pm
Please discuss.I am trapped in these questions.
Strange request given that the creator of this topic has not made any effort to tend to the thread. Not a post has been made since this one.

The post shows biases against what is known by physics. That is fine, but then the desired conclusion must be made known so the correct rationalization arguments can be chosen. Physics describes the geometry of spacetime, where time is quite analogous to altitude on a planet. It is about as meaningless to talk about time before the universe as it is meaningless to discuss an altitude lower than the center of the planet. Asking what caused it is as naive as asking what holds up the bottom of the pile that holds up my house.

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Re: Did the universe exist for ever or does it have a beginning?

Post by Wayne92587 » April 22nd, 2018, 11:36 am

Would anyone like to see a visual image of an infinite singularity, Infinite meaning immeasurable?

Take eight Mirrors with a diameter of 6 inches; form an octagon with the reflective side of the mirrors to the inside;
Place a single dot on one of the mirrors and observe from outside the perimeter, and an Infinite, unspoken of quantity, number, of singular dots, will appear in one of the mirrors.

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