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"Thoughts" and The concept of God

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
Fdesilva
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"Thoughts" and The concept of God

Post by Fdesilva » January 11th, 2019, 5:41 pm

Usage of the word "Thought" in this post is taken to mean anything that is part of a humans conscious experience. Under this definition a sound heard is a thought as much the thoughts going to solve a mathematical puzzle.
Based on the above definition it can be said that all of humanities knowledge consist of "thoughts". For anything to be known by a human it must become a "thought".
In the context of such a definition of "thoughts"
The set of all "thoughts" would fit the concept of God. If you accept Mathematical Platonism then God would exist

Wmhoerr
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Re: "Thoughts" and The concept of God

Post by Wmhoerr » January 12th, 2019, 1:14 am

As evolved animals, homo sapiens have had thoughts for more than 200,000 years. For most of this we would have had no idea of God. So that the idea that a "set of thoughts" equals God would be a difficult one. To take it as a proof of God would be even more difficult.

Fdesilva
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Re: "Thoughts" and The concept of God

Post by Fdesilva » January 12th, 2019, 6:41 am

Wmhoerr wrote:
January 12th, 2019, 1:14 am
As evolved animals, homo sapiens have had thoughts for more than 200,000 years. For most of this we would have had no idea of God. So that the idea that a "set of thoughts" equals God would be a difficult one. To take it as a proof of God would be even more difficult.
The set of all thoughts does not depend on there having to be humans to have a single one of the thoughts. Consider the set of numbers which is a subset of the set of thoughts. It does not depend on the existence of humans. Mathematical Platonism is the view that mathematical concepts exist eternally.

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phenomenal_graffiti
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Re: "Thoughts" and The concept of God

Post by phenomenal_graffiti » January 12th, 2019, 7:05 am

Thought is one of the seven types of consciousness or conscious experience. Existence only appears in the form of a person and that which the person experiences, so beyond the concept of "thought", there is subjective experience itself not so much as proof of God's existence, but an indication of the possibility of his existence, if there really doesn't exist something that is not subjective experience such that the only thing that exists in the external world are persons.
Q: What exists beyond the "Matrix" that is human consciousness?

A: The conscious and unconscious mind of God

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The Truman Show, 1998 Paramount Pictures

Fdesilva
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Re: "Thoughts" and The concept of God

Post by Fdesilva » January 12th, 2019, 6:23 pm

phenomenal_graffiti wrote:
January 12th, 2019, 7:05 am
Thought is one of the seven types of consciousness or conscious experience. Existence only appears in the form of a person and that which the person experiences, so beyond the concept of "thought", there is subjective experience itself not so much as proof of God's existence, but an indication of the possibility of his existence, if there really doesn't exist something that is not subjective experience such that the only thing that exists in the external world are persons.
For the purpose of this post I have defined the word "Thought" to include everything that makes up a consciouss experiance. However out of interest what are the seven types of consciouss experiance?

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Re: "Thoughts" and The concept of God

Post by Alias » January 13th, 2019, 2:46 am

Fdesilva wrote:
January 11th, 2019, 5:41 pm
The set of all "thoughts" would fit the concept of God.
How?
If you accept Mathematical Platonism then God would exist
And if I reject Mathematical Platonism, God would not exist?
What if I had rejected it earlier, then learned more and decided to accept it, after all? Will God come back from non-existence?

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phenomenal_graffiti
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Re: "Thoughts" and The concept of God

Post by phenomenal_graffiti » January 13th, 2019, 9:15 am

Fdesilva:

The seven types of conscious experience are the five senses, thought, and emotion. I group them into the anagram VAGOTET.

V=Visual Perception or Vision
A=Auditory Perception or Audition
G=Gustatory Perception or Gustation
O=Olfactory Perception or Olfaction
T=Tactile Perception or Taction
E=Emotion
T=Thought

Every second of every instance of conscious experience of every conscious being that has ever existed is nothing but "moving picture frames" of different examples of VAGOTET or what I call: "Frames of VAGOTET". One is essentially just shifting Frames of VAGOTET (or AGOTET if one is blind, VGOTET if one is deaf, etc.).
Q: What exists beyond the "Matrix" that is human consciousness?

A: The conscious and unconscious mind of God

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The Truman Show, 1998 Paramount Pictures

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h_k_s
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Re: "Thoughts" and The concept of God

Post by h_k_s » January 13th, 2019, 4:35 pm

Fdesilva wrote:
January 11th, 2019, 5:41 pm
Usage of the word "Thought" in this post is taken to mean anything that is part of a humans conscious experience. Under this definition a sound heard is a thought as much the thoughts going to solve a mathematical puzzle.
Based on the above definition it can be said that all of humanities knowledge consist of "thoughts". For anything to be known by a human it must become a "thought".
In the context of such a definition of "thoughts"
The set of all "thoughts" would fit the concept of God. If you accept Mathematical Platonism then God would exist
A sound is a physical phenomenon -- sound waves through a medium of a fluid like air or water.

Hearing a sound is a physiological phenomenon when the bones within your ear vibrate from the sound and communicate this vibration to your brain.

Thought is independent of the above.

You gave a very bad example which is invalid.

Q.E.D.

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h_k_s
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Re: "Thoughts" and The concept of God

Post by h_k_s » January 13th, 2019, 4:38 pm

Fdesilva wrote:
January 11th, 2019, 5:41 pm
Usage of the word "Thought" in this post is taken to mean anything that is part of a humans conscious experience. Under this definition a sound heard is a thought as much the thoughts going to solve a mathematical puzzle.
Based on the above definition it can be said that all of humanities knowledge consist of "thoughts". For anything to be known by a human it must become a "thought".
In the context of such a definition of "thoughts"
The set of all "thoughts" would fit the concept of God. If you accept Mathematical Platonism then God would exist
The philosophical experts on God are Aristotle, Augustine, and Aquinas.

Their writings derive God from His works.

For Aristotle, God is the Prime Mover.

For Aquinas, He is the First Cause.

Thus we can see the footprints of God in the sands of time and conclude that God was here.

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h_k_s
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Re: "Thoughts" and The concept of God

Post by h_k_s » January 13th, 2019, 4:39 pm

Mathematics does not exist.

What we call mathematics is simply a game of definitions and manipulations that we play in our minds.

Outside of our minds mathematics does not exist.

Fdesilva
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Re: "Thoughts" and The concept of God

Post by Fdesilva » January 13th, 2019, 4:39 pm

Alias wrote:
January 13th, 2019, 2:46 am
Fdesilva wrote:
January 11th, 2019, 5:41 pm
The set of all "thoughts" would fit the concept of God.
How?
The concept of God entails a single entity that has the following properties
Wisdom: The set of all thoughts will contain the perfect answer to evey possible question
Infinitude: The set of all thoughts will have an infinit amount of thoughts

Sovereignty: There can be no thought that is not an element of the set of thoughts


Omniscience:The set of all thought is all knowing as it contains all thoughts.

If you accept Mathematical Platonism then God would exist
Alias wrote:
January 13th, 2019, 2:46 am
And if I reject Mathematical Platonism, God would not exist?
What if I had rejected it earlier, then learned more and decided to accept it, after all? Will God come back from non-existence?
If Mathematical pltonism is true then its truth does not depend on a human excepting it. This is infact is its core tenent.

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Consul
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Re: "Thoughts" and The concept of God

Post by Consul » January 13th, 2019, 4:45 pm

Fdesilva wrote:
January 11th, 2019, 5:41 pm
Usage of the word "Thought" in this post is taken to mean anything that is part of a humans conscious experience.
That's Descartes' usage, who used "thought" (cogitatio, pensée) synonymously with "consciousness".
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars

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Re: "Thoughts" and The concept of God

Post by Alias » January 13th, 2019, 5:47 pm

[quote=Fdesilva post_id=327356 time=1547411984 user_id=4659
The concept of God entails a single entity that has the following properties
Wisdom: The set of all thoughts will contain the perfect answer to evey possible question
Wisdom: The set of all thoughts will contain the perfect answer to evey possible question
Infinitude: The set of all thoughts will have an infinit amount of thoughts
Sovereignty: There can be no thought that is not an element of the set of thoughts
Omniscience:The set of all thought is all knowing as it contains all thoughts.[/quote]
And again, you assert that something which contains all thoughts is your concept of God and therefore all thoughts fit into your concept of god, because god is what contains all thoughts. OK
If Mathematical pltonism is true then its truth does not depend on a human excepting it. This is infact is its core tenent.
If.
This doesn't explain how my refusal to accept it makes god stop existing.

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Re: "Thoughts" and The concept of God

Post by Jklint » January 13th, 2019, 6:57 pm

A myth we haven't yet completely outgrown. In spite of signifying nothing, it still exists as an entity the brain has hooked and can't shake loose. It's an argument which pollutes any argument it is a part of or to sabotage any logic contained within it. It does not conform to reality but only to the Will itself which has a completely different agenda than that contained within any conscientious search for knowledge. It's a question of what we give priority to.

Fdesilva
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Re: "Thoughts" and The concept of God

Post by Fdesilva » January 13th, 2019, 7:38 pm

h_k_s wrote:
January 13th, 2019, 4:39 pm
Mathematics does not exist.

What we call mathematics is simply a game of definitions and manipulations that we play in our minds.

Outside of our minds mathematics does not exist.
This paper might be of interest to you
https://arxiv.org/abs/1504.06686
The Deeper Roles of Mathematics in Physical Laws

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