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Vitualization of democratic buildings

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Vitualization of democratic buildings

Post by detail » November 24th, 2019, 3:36 am

Is it in modern times that necessary to keep expensive builidings, that are extremely costly where a simple blog webpage in which voice and pdf contributions of parlamentary would be posted would be somewhat more effective. Can't we simply do the first step by offering absent politicians
which are inhibited by their additional jobs, the possibility to post a pdf or a voice mail that is then simply read to the other parlamentarians.
We would save billions of eurodollars for housekeeping expenses , water supply and electricty by simply shifting debates to webpages.

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Re: Vitualization of democratic buildings

Post by Pattern-chaser » November 24th, 2019, 8:38 am

Perhaps we could move away from all forms of direct contact or association, then? It would surely be more efficient? 😯
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Re: Vitualization of democratic buildings

Post by detail » November 24th, 2019, 1:10 pm

At least that for all the absentees in the parliament this would be a possiblity to be virtual present . The percentage at least in germany isn't that low.

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Re: Vitualization of democratic buildings

Post by Thomyum2 » November 25th, 2019, 3:07 pm

detail wrote:
November 24th, 2019, 3:36 am
Is it in modern times that necessary to keep expensive builidings, that are extremely costly where a simple blog webpage in which voice and pdf contributions of parlamentary would be posted would be somewhat more effective. Can't we simply do the first step by offering absent politicians
which are inhibited by their additional jobs, the possibility to post a pdf or a voice mail that is then simply read to the other parlamentarians.
We would save billions of eurodollars for housekeeping expenses , water supply and electricty by simply shifting debates to webpages.
For the last three years I've worked from my home as a remote employee and from that perspective have a couple of thoughts to offer. On the surface it does seem like a good idea - as you've pointed out, it's cost effective in that the employer (or the public in your example) has a cost savings of not having to purchase or rent space, maintain it, pay utility costs, etc. For the employee, there's no commuting time or expense, and there's the added flexibility to being able to remain at home and be available to take care of things that need attention during the day. So at first look, the arrangement appears to have little downside, though one things that is obviously missing in this arrangement is the level of interpersonal contact and interaction. The companies I've worked with have tried to offset this by creating 'virtual' meetings and opportunities for the workers and teams to interact through technology - phone and video conferences, web meetings, etc. - and by providing 'team building exercises' with the goal of having employees get to know each other better personally.

But what I've found is that in spite of these efforts, there's still a resulting loss of ability to build solid and enduring relationships with people. Somehow, the relationships that are made in this virtual medium don't seem to stick - when I've moved to other positions or companies, the relationships just don't follow and people don't keep in touch. I'm not completely sure why this has been the case, but I attribute it to the fact that without the face-to-face contacts, the exchange of non-verbal communications, and the opportunity for spontaneous and informal discussions not centered around work, you just don't ever quite 'get to know' someone in the same way you would through direct encounters. I've also noticed that communication through virtual media tends to be less complete. Training new employees on complex tasks, for example, it much more difficult and ultimately less effective when done through phones, computers and written materials alone. I've read also that some companies have found that there is less creativity and teamwork from their employees when all of the contact is virtual and this doesn't surprise me either. So I think in time, it will become more apparent that there are in fact a lot of disadvantages when these more traditional kinds of interactions are eliminated.

I'm not sure this helps much with your question, and certainly there is a difference between democratic and governmental institutions versus businesses, but I suspect that the same thing would apply. In fact, I'd even suggest that the ability to create and strengthen individual relationships could perhaps be even more important for governments than businesses. In recent years, haven't we all seen the decline in civility in political discourse and lack of ability to communicate well and to build consensus and trust among our leaders? I can't help but wonder if the move toward virtual interactions is perhaps already fueling this trend in some ways? And isn't part of the reason we sent our representatives to the capitol precisely because we need to create relationships with other groups in our societies and not just to get a job done?

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Re: Vitualization of democratic buildings

Post by Sculptor1 » November 25th, 2019, 5:28 pm

detail wrote:
November 24th, 2019, 3:36 am
Is it in modern times that necessary to keep expensive builidings, that are extremely costly where a simple blog webpage in which voice and pdf contributions of parlamentary would be posted would be somewhat more effective. Can't we simply do the first step by offering absent politicians
which are inhibited by their additional jobs, the possibility to post a pdf or a voice mail that is then simply read to the other parlamentarians.
We would save billions of eurodollars for housekeeping expenses , water supply and electricty by simply shifting debates to webpages.
We could all become brains in vats communicating through computer networks with virtual realities, and fed with a nutrient medium.
Sadly all this "saving money" malarky means the complete collapse of the economy.

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Re: Vitualization of democratic buildings

Post by detail » November 27th, 2019, 4:59 am

For persons who would like to communicate directly there exists an enormous amount of possibilitier faire as well as party meetings. Direct social contacts are not in need of public Buildings. To virtualize parliaments would have the Advantage that it is controlled by public by far more than the
internal gremia could ever be.

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Re: Vitualization of democratic buildings

Post by Felix » November 29th, 2019, 5:56 pm

Sadly all this "saving money" malarky means the complete collapse of the economy.
Yes, Nuclear war and nuclear winter would save a tremendous amount of money.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin

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Re: Vitualization of democratic buildings

Post by detail » December 3rd, 2019, 1:52 pm

A cyber parliament would be less polluting and less devastating than a nuclear war. This argument is a hoax.

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Re: Vitualization of democratic buildings

Post by Steve3007 » December 4th, 2019, 5:13 am

Vittles / Victuals. Meaning: food.

The OP is missing an 'r' but it could as easily be missing a 'c'. I'm quite intrigued by the idea of making the infrastructure and instruments of democracy edible. Edible ballot papers, to improve voter turnout, might be worth considering.

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Re: Vitualization of democratic buildings

Post by Alias » December 5th, 2019, 2:09 am

How do you know who's posting the messages that send billions of dollars offshore, armies to war and refugees to labour camps?

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Re: Vitualization of democratic buildings

Post by Alias » December 5th, 2019, 2:12 am

Come to think of it - how do you know whether you have any representatives at all, or just a bunch of Russian sock-puppets tweeting at one another?
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire

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Re: Vitualization of democratic buildings

Post by detail » December 5th, 2019, 3:45 pm

Alias wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 2:12 am
Come to think of it - how do you know whether you have any representatives at all, or just a bunch of Russian sock-puppets tweeting at one another?
That's the problem of cyber security. One can easily have something like a cypher-block chain identification id for the corresponding parliament.
Despite this, this is no reason to get anti-russian. This is no forum for prejudices.

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Re: Vitualization of democratic buildings

Post by detail » December 5th, 2019, 3:47 pm

I think everybody believes in future secure cyber money, why on earth don't you want to believe in a cyber secure parliament, that doesn't need any expensive buildings and costs for cleaning and security. Cypher-block chaining showed us the way.

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Re: Vitualization of democratic buildings

Post by Alias » Yesterday, 12:09 am

detail wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 3:47 pm
I think everybody believes in future secure cyber money,
Whatever makes you think that?
why on earth don't you want to believe in a cyber secure parliament,
Several reasons.
- Cyber-security is a pipe-dream: as soon as new safeguards are invented, new hacks are devised to circumvent them.
- The difficulty, if not impossibility or ascertaining the virtual identity of any person: you can trace the address, but you can't see the user.
- Even if you can see the user; that is, the parliamentarian is reqiured to sit before his web-cam while participating in a virtual session, video footage is too easy to fake now, and it will only become more technically adept.
- The entire can session can be faked. The parliamentary session may be taking place on one circuit, while an ill-wisher or usurper broadcasts a facsimile to the public and news media. They could dub in entire fake bills and the votes to pass them.
It doesn't need to be the Russians - though I didn't pluck the name out of prejudice; they have done something like this - it could be any enemy of a nation's democratic process.
that doesn't need any expensive buildings and costs for cleaning and security.
The buildings already exist, and hold a certain amount of historical/social/emotional/cohesive significance for people. Those buildings represent continuity, security and stability.
Besides, tearing them down or repurposing them would be far more expenasive than maintenance.
Why would you want to turn a lot of people out of jobs?
cyber-block chaining showed us the way.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire

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Re: Vitualization of democratic buildings

Post by Alias » Yesterday, 12:19 am

I wonder how you envision the future of humanity.
A class of Individuals in their separate cells behind their keyboards and screens, doing office-work via internet, ordering packaged, prepared food and fuzzy pajamas by app, taking virtual part in a virtual world, without ever touching grass or feeling sunlight and a peon class, out in the streets and fields, living physical lives, maintaining the infrastructure, producing and delivering things to the cyber-class?
What if the peons get fed up and just stop servicing the cyber-class?
What if the system goes down and you're all left sitting in the dark?

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