The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

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gad-fly
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The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

Post by gad-fly » June 24th, 2020, 12:59 am

Please spend a few minutes to go through the following link, thanks to Count Lucanor.
Overpopulation – The Human Explosion Explained

An earlier thread titled 'World Overpopulation' can be found in this forum, but it has been mired in the argument of whether World Overpopulation is indeed an imminent global problem or just a political myth. Excuse me for seeking a fresh start to drop the luggage of this argument, and to bring insight into what I hope to focus on, namely, the impact of WEP.

By itself, WEP cannot be categorically identified as a problem. More appropriate to call it a phenomenon or situation. Who does it impact on, if adversely? It may be not a problem if some are beneficially affected in the process. Even then, it may still not be problem unless the damage outweigh the benefit substantially. This brings in the question: how do we apportion weight between human and non-human? If one human is worth ten lions, then forcing out ten to increase by one can be fine. We have been clearing grassland and forest into pasture from time immemorial. Why should we not destroy wild life habit if necessary to provide living space for more of us? One suggested answer: We have gone too far, and it is time to give this Earth a break, if it is not already too late.

A crucial challenge is to identify correlation between factor and result. In the present context, can some identified global problems be attributed to WEP, and if so, how much? WEP may be denied as the dominant factor, but if it has been so identified, we should have the obligation to tackle the problem at source, which may include WEP and others.

I suggest we start by identifying global problems, one at a time, which WEP must have a major impact. I can suggest a couple:
1. Deforestation
2. Endangered species

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Terrapin Station
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Re: The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

Post by Terrapin Station » June 25th, 2020, 9:01 am

In my view, the current level of population is not at all the problem. The problem is how we design living areas and how we manage resources. The world could accommodate a much larger population with far less environmental impact. We'd just need to structure things differently and manage resources differently.

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Re: The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

Post by Marvin_Edwards » June 25th, 2020, 10:41 am

gad-fly wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 12:59 am
I suggest we start by identifying global problems, one at a time, which WEP must have a major impact. I can suggest a couple:
1. Deforestation
2. Endangered species
3. Quality of human life in over-crowded cities.
4. Pandemics that spread more quickly in crowded conditions.

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Re: The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

Post by gad-fly » June 25th, 2020, 10:53 am

Terrapin Station wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 9:01 am
In my view, the current level of population is not at all the problem. The problem is how we design living areas and how we manage resources. The world could accommodate a much larger population with far less environmental impact. We'd just need to structure things differently and manage resources differently.
I have mentioned that WEP is not categorically a problem. Let us focus on its impact causing problems such as deforestation.

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Re: The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

Post by Terrapin Station » June 25th, 2020, 10:57 am

gad-fly wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 10:53 am
Terrapin Station wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 9:01 am
In my view, the current level of population is not at all the problem. The problem is how we design living areas and how we manage resources. The world could accommodate a much larger population with far less environmental impact. We'd just need to structure things differently and manage resources differently.
I have mentioned that WEP is not categorically a problem. Let us focus on its impact causing problems such as deforestation.
Sure, deforestation is a big problem. It's simply a matter of figuring out how to get politicians to care about it, and that's going to amount to figuring out how to make if financially advantageous for them to stop deforestation.

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Re: The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

Post by Steve3007 » June 25th, 2020, 11:20 am

5a. The environmental footprint of affluent lifestyles with current technology.
5b. The spread of affluent lifestyles across the globe without changes to that technology.

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Re: The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

Post by Something_Different » June 25th, 2020, 6:30 pm

It seems that at least part of this question may be reduced to a question about natalism. If you hold a strongly pro-natalist view, the complications created by WEP are at most an annoyance and something to be mitigated. If you have a strongly anti-natalist view, the question is almost superfluous: life is full of suffering, and it would be even if the Earth had room for the human population a thousand times over.

To have a debate over the adverse impacts of WEP seems to require a middle point of view, where the value of bringing an additional human life into the world is not negative, but neither is it so positive as to outweigh suffering among those already alive. I'm curious as to how people strike that balance.

To save a human life may well be worth ten lions, but is it worth ten lions to bring a new human being into the world?

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Re: The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

Post by gad-fly » June 25th, 2020, 10:38 pm

gad-fly wrote:
June 24th, 2020, 12:59 am

I suggest we start by identifying global problems, one at a time, which WEP must have a major impact. I can suggest a couple:
1. Deforestation
2. Endangered species
Human-induced Deforestation has probably begun with the first experience cooking meat. The method of slash-and-burn has not changed. Wide open fire remains the agent. The technology of fire-lighting may be more advanced, but the same end purpose can be summarized: To clear land available for human benefit.

So why should it be a global problem now? The answer may apply, in general, to a wide range of similar problems: We have gone too far. But what is wrong with fewer tree and more human? Trees are still plentiful. It takes you some effort to find them if you live in the urban jungle, but is that little effort serious enough to bother you? No, but your effort is not the concern. You are on the wrong focus.

Trees are not born equal. They are vastly different, and they can have vastly different lifestyles. Some are one of a kind, and some are extremely picky about where to live and thrive. Clearing an indistinguishable forest in the middle of nowhere may lead to the extinction of a tree species which cannot be found elsewhere. Why is that a problem now? Because we have already cleared up so many forest that the indistinguishable forest may be unique. Why should we bother about the dying of a few tree species? Because so many have died. It is high time to stop persecuting them, and to give them some breathing space to recover. They deserve it. But it is more than that. We deserve their survival. Only together can we grow strong. We need them as much as they need us, in the medicinal ingredients which they can probably provide for our wellness, for example.

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Re: The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

Post by Sculptor1 » June 26th, 2020, 3:52 am

Take the births and delete the deaths: there are 40 million more people in the world this year already.

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Re: The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

Post by Ron Krumpos » June 27th, 2020, 6:28 pm

World population increased from three billion in 1960 to seven billion in 2011, more than doubling in 50 years. In 2020 it is now 7.8 billion.

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Re: The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

Post by gad-fly » June 29th, 2020, 12:58 am

Ron Krumpos wrote:
June 27th, 2020, 6:28 pm
World population increased from three billion in 1960 to seven billion in 2011, more than doubling in 50 years. In 2020 it is now 7.8 billion.
Please comment on the impact of WEP, from now into the next century. It is adverse, marginal, or transitional?

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Re: The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

Post by Sculptor1 » June 29th, 2020, 3:20 am

gad-fly wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 12:58 am
Ron Krumpos wrote:
June 27th, 2020, 6:28 pm
World population increased from three billion in 1960 to seven billion in 2011, more than doubling in 50 years. In 2020 it is now 7.8 billion.
Please comment on the impact of WEP, from now into the next century. It is adverse, marginal, or transitional?
Adverse, obviously.
You'll have to say what you think you mean by marginal and transitional.

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Re: The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

Post by gad-fly » June 29th, 2020, 9:45 am

Sculptor1 wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 3:20 am

Adverse, obviously.
You'll have to say what you think you mean by marginal and transitional.
A fruitful discussion should begin with identification. WEP Impact on what? Say there are five subjects A to E. It would be meaningless to say Adverse before focusing how and on which. The adverse effect may be marginal if the degree is acceptable on A and balanced by derived benefit on B. It would be transitional if reasonable recovery from the adverse effect can be made afterwards.

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Re: The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

Post by Sculptor1 » June 29th, 2020, 11:06 am

gad-fly wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 9:45 am
Sculptor1 wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 3:20 am

Adverse, obviously.
You'll have to say what you think you mean by marginal and transitional.
A fruitful discussion should begin with identification. WEP Impact on what? Say there are five subjects A to E. It would be meaningless to say Adverse before focusing how and on which. The adverse effect may be marginal if the degree is acceptable on A and balanced by derived benefit on B. It would be transitional if reasonable recovery from the adverse effect can be made afterwards.
Is this all a way of avoiding answering my question?
Can you think of ANY area where the impact of WEP is not adverse? Can you think of ANY reason why it could be seen as a positive?
A or B be damned.

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Re: The Adverse Impact of World Expansion of Population (WEP)

Post by gad-fly » June 29th, 2020, 11:40 am

Sculptor1 wrote:
June 29th, 2020, 11:06 am

Is this all a way of avoiding answering my question?
I cannot see you asking me a question in the first place. Please quote.

I may not be in the position to answer your question. Someone else may answer it better than me.

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