Philosophy Discussion Forums | A Humans-Only Club for Open-Minded Discussion & Debate

[Silvia Orenge]

think what is happening is happening for good and what is going to happen will happen for good. Always take good things from your life and experiences and learn from your failures and mistakes. Rest leave on fortune. We have no control over what is happening and what will be going to happen, we are just a part of it. May be it nature or some omnipotent being who is controls everything. I believe that whatever is happening is happening for good and we all have to play our role in it. The interesting thing is we can choose a positive role or negative but we cannot sit ideal and watch what's happening because if we do sit ideal no one in history will recognize us. So whenever you get chance to pick a side, choose your side carefully because history will remember your contributions, either in a positive way or in a negative way.

[Christine Catarino]

Let me begin by saying that I agree that we have free will to choose; therefore, almost every action we take can be chosen. However, I just recently experienced the loss of a friend, and I am feeling as if there are "shouldn't" have happened moments.

1. Can you give me some specific examples of something that happened that "shouldn't" have happened? A 40-year-old man just died from cancer. He was a husband and a father. He did not choose to die, and he was an amazing person, so he did not deserve to die either. However, as someone religious, I do believe God has a plan for all of us, so God felt it was his time, but for the rest of us, we feel that something like cancer should never have happened to him.

2. Can you give me some specific examples of a person or thing that "shouldn't" be the way it is at the time that it is that way? Pretty much the above example.

3. Can you give me an example of something that "should" be happening right now (relative to you in your present in spacetime) but isn't? I could come up with plenty of "should" happenings, but I, like you, do believe that we choose to make things happen or not happen. So, to answer this question, no I cannot provide an example because if something is not happening or is happening to me then it's due to my own choices.

4. Regarding those things or events that allegedly "shouldn't" be the way they were/are, are those things that are within your control (i.e. a matter of your choice)? No.

5. Are these things that you can change, or are they things that you cannot change? His illness and his passing is not something that I or anyone else could honestly change.

6. Do you (like me) firmly practice the principle of fully, totally, and unconditionally accepting that which you cannot control (a.k.a. that which you cannot change)? I do. I even accepted the death of my friend. Although I feel that his illness and ultimately his passing should not have happened, I understand that it is out of our control. Again, as someone who is religious, I believe it was God's will.


7. Is it possible that when you say something "shouldn't" be the way it is that you are speaking gibberish (i.e. saying something that doesn't actually mean anything, at least not anything coherent)? Not in this case.

8. As you use the words, what would it mean to say some unchangeable aspect of reality (e.g. the past) shouldn't be the way it unchangeably is? Again, the example I am providing is driving this thought process for me, normally, I think similarly to you.

9. For example, as you use the words, what does it mean to say, "2 + 2 should not equal 4"? For me that would not make sense, as 2 + 2 was always taught to me as being equal to 4.

10. What does it mean to say "That hurricane that happened yesterday shouldn't have happened"? Humans cannot control mother nature and the weather.

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

Hi, Christine Catarino,

1. Can you give me some specific examples of something that happened that "shouldn't" have happened? A 40-year-old man just died from cancer. He was a husband and a father. He did not choose to die, and he was an amazing person, so he did not deserve to die either. However, as someone religious, I do believe God has a plan for all of us, so God felt it was his time, but for the rest of us, we feel that something like cancer should never have happened to him.

So you are saying God's plan should be different; correct? So you are saying God should be different; correct?

How can you (later in post) say you accept it

To me, as I use terms, to say something should not have happened entails nonacceptance/resentment/unforgiveness/etc. As I use the words, those are all just different ways of describing the same thing. If you use the words differently, can you define what you mean by words like "should" and "ought", especially in the context of saying God's plan or God's creation should be different than it is?


With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
a.k.a. Scott

[pokey Jake]

I'm persuaded that everything happens for a reason after reading "In It Together." Nothing is that it ought not to be or should not be.

[Ivan Kovic]

If I have a responsibility, is that not something I "should" do? For instance, you have a child, providing for him is what you "should" do. Isn't that right?

[Vivian Writes]

I also believe that I have the freedom of choice, and for those who believe that some thing should happen while others shouldn't, I think it has more to do with what they prefer to happen or not happen. Interesting piece.

[Alida Spies]

4. In regard to those things or events that allegedly "shouldn't" be the way they were/are, are those things that are within your control (i.e. a matter of your choice)? No

5. Are these things that you can change, or are they things that you cannot change? I cannot change them.

6. Do you (like me) firmly practice the principle of fully, totally, and unconditionally accepting that which you cannot control (a.k.a. that which you cannot change)? Yes.

It seems to me like you may have either (1) contradicted yourself or (2) spoken gibberish (i.e. used the word 'should' to mean nothing coherent). However, to see if that appearance is correct let me ask these follow-up questions:

- What does it mean to say some unchangeable aspect of reality (e.g. the past) shouldn't be the way it unchangeably is if not to--in some way or another--refuse to accept it?

- What does it mean to say "2 + 2 should not equal 4; I accept that it does equal 4, but it should not"? As you use the words, what would that sentence mean exactly?

- What does it mean to say "That hurricane that happened yesterday shouldn't have happened! I accept that it did happen, but it shouldn't have happened!" As you use the words, what would that sentence mean?


With love,
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
a.k.a. Scott

Hi Scott,

I've read the discussion between you and Juanita and I have a much better understanding of your usage of the word "evil" now. As Juanita put it, God made a beautiful, perfect world but He gave people free will and they messed it up. After your last response to Juanita, I agree with your view on "should-not-haves".

I was too focused on my definition of evil and wasn't "listening" to what you were actually saying.

Best regards
Alida

[Scholastica Daniel]

When we say something shouldn't have happened, it simply a means to comfort ourselves and try to put a blame on the mistakes that we might have made. It means we keep playing that event over and over again in our minds, until we get stuck and we are not even trying to look for solutions anymore but play a pity party. It stop us from moving forward and we develop bad habits like being abusive to other.

[Eromosele Success]

What of wishful thinking? Doesn’t “should” come into play when we wish something happens?

[Juanita Phelps]

No. Wishful thinking is wanting something to be true even though it is impossible. I might want to be young and beautiful again. That is wishful thinking.

I might want a war to end in peace although it isn't likely to happen.

In these and other examples of wishful thinking, there can be no should. The Truth of each situation is simply all there is.

This is a different philosophy from should haveness.

[Juanita Phelps]

What of wishful thinking? Doesn’t “should” come into play when we wish something happens?

No. Wishful thinking is wanting something to be true even though it is impossible. I might want to be young and beautiful again. That is wishful thinking.

I might want a war to end in peace although it isn't likely to happen.

In these and other examples of wishful thinking, there can be no should. The Truth of each situation is simply all there is.

This is a different philosophy from should haveness.

[Eromosele Success]

What of wishful thinking? Doesn’t “should” come into play when we wish something happens?

No. Wishful thinking is wanting something to be true even though it is impossible. I might want to be young and beautiful again. That is wishful thinking.

I might want a war to end in peace although it isn't likely to happen.

In these and other examples of wishful thinking, there can be no should. The Truth of each situation is simply all there is.

This is a different philosophy from should haveness.

I believe you’re right. Thanks for the eye opener. Do you really think should and have’s “shouldn’t” exist?

[Juanita Phelps]

What of wishful thinking? Doesn’t “should” come into play when we wish something happens?

No. Wishful thinking is wanting something to be true even though it is impossible. I might want to be young and beautiful again. That is wishful thinking.

I might want a war to end in peace although it isn't likely to happen.

In these and other examples of wishful thinking, there can be no should. The Truth of each situation is simply all there is.

This is a different philosophy from should haveness.

I believe you’re right. Thanks for the eye opener. Do you really think should and have’s “shouldn’t” exist?

The more I read Scott's book, the more I doubt the validity if should and should not. Whatever happened is history already and I can't change it by nattering on about should not have or should have Whatever. It is what it is. That is where wishful thinking bumps heads with reality.

It. Is. What. It. Is.

[Eromosele Success]

What of wishful thinking? Doesn’t “should” come into play when we wish something happens?

No. Wishful thinking is wanting something to be true even though it is impossible. I might want to be young and beautiful again. That is wishful thinking.

I might want a war to end in peace although it isn't likely to happen.

In these and other examples of wishful thinking, there can be no should. The Truth of each situation is simply all there is.

This is a different philosophy from should haveness.

I believe you’re right. Thanks for the eye opener. Do you really think should and have’s “shouldn’t” exist?

The more I read Scott's book, the more I doubt the validity if should and should not. Whatever happened is history already and I can't change it by nattering on about should not have or should have Whatever. It is what it is. That is where wishful thinking bumps heads with reality.

It. Is. What. It. Is.

"Should" as a word has so many real-world applications. What will it be replaced with if everyone decides to adopt this idea? Thouights?

[Juanita Phelps]

No. Wishful thinking is wanting something to be true even though it is impossible. I might want to be young and beautiful again. That is wishful thinking.

I might want a war to end in peace although it isn't likely to happen.

In these and other examples of wishful thinking, there can be no should. The Truth of each situation is simply all there is.

This is a different philosophy from should haveness.

I believe you’re right. Thanks for the eye opener. Do you really think should and have’s “shouldn’t” exist?

The more I read Scott's book, the more I doubt the validity if should and should not. Whatever happened is history already and I can't change it by nattering on about should not have or should have Whatever. It is what it is. That is where wishful thinking bumps heads with reality.

It. Is. What. It. Is.

"Should" as a word has so many real-world applications. What will it be replaced with if everyone decides to adopt this idea? Thouights?

How about for the sake of daily living, we keep our language intact while understanding our philosophy on another level?

Apart from that, I see a confusing heap of linguistic cornflakes where our daily bread was once upon a time.
With a smile,
Juanita Carol McCoy Phelps