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I Hate Gays

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Outsidelooking1n
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Re: I Hate Gays

Post by Outsidelooking1n » May 29th, 2017, 5:34 am

My views regarding homosexuality stems on mainly how absurd, chaotic, and f*cked up nature is. I hear various reasons for it's existence and the main one I hear is "It's nature's form of population control." Which I think is still silly, why couldn't nature simply remove the desire to of mating in an organism in the first place? To me that makes better sense than having two of the same biological sex hump and lick on each other, finding alternative ways to have sex because obviously they don't have the correct "parts". Of course straight people do all kinds of weird perverted things to get their "jollies' off as well and have sex with absolutely no intention of procreation, just taking advantage of the mechanisms that make conception easier.

But anyway, I also want to add that it also bothers me when people generalize homosexuals being born that way, that's not entirely true either, someone could be straight for most of their lives and then become homosexual or bi etc. (ridiculous amount of "orientations" to keep up with) for various reasons. This is some of my views regarding homosexuality and sexuality in general since I have negative views towards sexuality, and bemused slightly by how people are just too "proud" of what nature gave them (having the idea - at least most of the time - that nature=good) but at the same time realizing that there needs to be rules in order to control it. Showing that while being "proud' (e.g. gays) one still needs to be careful with one's body and others. I get it's a way of... I guess coping, but excessive pride in a fault is ridiculous to me regardless of whether a person sees it as one or not.

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Re: I Hate Gays

Post by Greta » May 29th, 2017, 8:09 pm

Some are definitely born that way, and conditioning in the first five years may well also play role, noting that such influences tend to stay with us for life.

I don't understand the antipathy, perhaps because I'm no longer "in the game", gave up sex years ago and never looked back. Now, as a non-sexual, I find all the carry on and judgement of others' consenting adult activities bemusing. It makes no sense to me. If you don't like other people's relationships, have relationships yourself that you do like. Problem solved. Whatever, while I suppose it is possible to fall in love with people who don't turn you on sexually, the sex would be sure to be embarrassing and disappointing..

Certainly women don't need an army of gay men intimidated by stigma and hatred marrying off in the forlorn hope of normalising themselves. Hardly fair on the women, a recipe for even more sadness, broken marriages and kids raised by one struggling parent.

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Outsidelooking1n
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Re: I Hate Gays

Post by Outsidelooking1n » May 29th, 2017, 10:15 pm

I already do have relationships with people that I like, that doesn't mean that I'm not able to judge these consenting adults relationships and "orientations'. Just because someone is judgmental or critical doesn't mean that they "Don't have a life."

The sex being boring is something I don't and obviously don't care for, as I said, it's people taking advantage of the mechanisms that make conception easier, in the case with gays it's aimed at the...I guess you can say "wrong gender". Also a bit of culture/society plays a role in forming people's views of sex as an extremely important and deal-breaking aspect in people's lives as I don't believe that those views are completely "natural" to people.

The problem I also have is the association of sex somehow being the ultimate form of love and romance (I'm not all that crazy about). You can so-called "fall in love" with someone and not desire sex from them at all. I just don't see love, romance (however people want to define that) and sex as interdependent. And I doubt there's a "army" of gays (I''m not just talking about the men) from my understanding they're rare, I'm just being critical of the existence of it and sexuality among humans in general. It just bothers me when people play the "nature' card like it always trumps therefore making it ok.

Stigma among sexual people in general causes broken families, the homo thing is just another aspect. Also, some gays legit don't want to be that way so it can also be seen as unfair to have them be in gay sexual relationships regardless of the fact that they can marry now (at least here in the U.S.).


I also want to congratulate you on the fact that you've given up sex. You don't understand my antipathy, but I don't entirely relate to your indifference, but to each it's own.

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Re: I Hate Gays

Post by Greta » May 29th, 2017, 11:22 pm

The problem I also have is the association of sex somehow being the ultimate form of love and romance (I'm not all that crazy about). [/quote]
Now you are talking! Eros is painted as the ultimate form of love but but I'd rather the types of love simply involving general goodwill and a general love of life and reality, but that was not the case when full of pushy hormones.
Outsidelooking1n wrote:... I doubt there's a "army" of gays (I''m not just talking about the men) from my understanding they're rare, I'm just being critical of the existence of it and sexuality among humans in general. It just bothers me when people play the "nature' card like it always trumps therefore making it ok.
I personally think that "nature" and "natural" in context don't much matter. Soap's not natural either. The singer from my last band was gay to the point where the idea of him being with a woman would seem ridiculous, like imagining Chuck Norris kissing Rambo. A very fine human being too, having put in a great deal of work into various charities. I don't see moral issue, only the struggles he had a school and sometimes since with mistreatment for being different.

Stigma among sexual people in general causes broken families, the homo thing is just another aspect. Also, some gays legit don't want to be that way so it can also be seen as unfair to have them be in gay sexual relationships regardless of the fact that they can marry now (at least here in the U.S.).
Outsidelooking1n wrote:I also want to congratulate you on the fact that you've given up sex. You don't understand my antipathy, but I don't entirely relate to your indifference, but to each it's own.
I only gave it up because I was older and single, and I made a cost-benefit decision. Whatever, I had my jollies when younger and now I move to the next chapter.

So thanks, but I see no cause for congratulations for leaving aside all the humping, sweating etc. Still, I guess congratulations are warranted for anyone who is happy with who they are and what they do in life (that doesn't unfairly harm others). Many are not happy with themselves or the world, taking on board the anger and judgement of others rather than following their own muse or bliss. Life's too short to worry about others' "stuff" IMO. I don't much care what people do as long as they are not unfair or cruel to the vulnerable.

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Re: I Hate Gays

Post by LuckyR » June 1st, 2017, 1:53 am

Outsidelooking1n wrote:My views regarding homosexuality stems on mainly how absurd, chaotic, and f*cked up nature is. I hear various reasons for it's existence and the main one I hear is "It's nature's form of population control." Which I think is still silly, why couldn't nature simply remove the desire to of mating in an organism in the first place? To me that makes better sense than having two of the same biological sex hump and lick on each other, finding alternative ways to have sex because obviously they don't have the correct "parts". Of course straight people do all kinds of weird perverted things to get their "jollies' off as well and have sex with absolutely no intention of procreation, just taking advantage of the mechanisms that make conception easier.

But anyway, I also want to add that it also bothers me when people generalize homosexuals being born that way, that's not entirely true either, someone could be straight for most of their lives and then become homosexual or bi etc. (ridiculous amount of "orientations" to keep up with) for various reasons. This is some of my views regarding homosexuality and sexuality in general since I have negative views towards sexuality, and bemused slightly by how people are just too "proud" of what nature gave them (having the idea - at least most of the time - that nature=good) but at the same time realizing that there needs to be rules in order to control it. Showing that while being "proud' (e.g. gays) one still needs to be careful with one's body and others. I get it's a way of... I guess coping, but excessive pride in a fault is ridiculous to me regardless of whether a person sees it as one or not.
Thanks for sharing your opinions. What importance do you think your (or mine for that matter) opinion should carry? Especially to a gay person. Should they care what you or I think? Should they follow it?

If not, then it seems we are both expressing important (to us) ideas that carry no weight. OTOH if you think that folks should follow your advice, then why your's, why not mine?

Basically this is an area where live and let live is the best way forward (assuming we are all consenting adults).
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: I Hate Gays

Post by Burning ghost » June 1st, 2017, 3:52 am

Spiral out -

One is a choice and the other is not. Simple ;)

Next we'll be debating why it is okay to hate women even though they cannot help being women?
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Re: I Hate Gays

Post by Gertie » June 1st, 2017, 5:38 am

Burning ghost wrote:Spiral out -

One is a choice and the other is not. Simple ;)

Next we'll be debating why it is okay to hate women even though they cannot help being women?
Depressing isn't it.

On the upside, these people are increasingly losing their power to implement their bigoted views, so... it's getting harder to give **** :)

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Re: I Hate Gays

Post by Annski » July 13th, 2017, 10:39 am

Spiral Out wrote:If I went about stating that I didn't care for gays, their displays of selfishness or what they were doing to society in the unnecessary trouble and conflict that they are creating then I would be promptly labelled a homophobe by most people that I expressed that opinion to.

So then along would come other people to quickly condemn me for my views and they would probably say they didn't like me, my display of selfishness or what I was doing to society in the unnecessary trouble and conflict that I was creating.

So it just becomes an intolerance of intolerance and a homophobophobia of a homophobia, and it just gets passed down in turn.

It can be said that both sides are just trying to maintain the rights of people to be happy and live their lives in a way that satisfies their basic Human needs.

What is the moral difference between those who dislike someone for their views, and those who dislike those who dislike someone for their views?
As far as I see it, firstly hating someone based on their sexuality is not hating someone for their veiws as sexuality is not an opinion or a veiw. It is a sexuality. Either way, disliking someone for being gay and disliking someone for disliking people for being gay are different, and both are fine ethically on the grounds of it being okay to hold an opinion of your own choosing. But people are also free to fight against other opinions, and dislike other opinions as much as they want. Nobody has to be of the opinion that homosexual people are equal but that same idea means that nobody has to be of the opinion that it's fine to not consider homosexual people as equals either. Just like you do not have to like homosexual humans, nobody has to like you either.

Homophobic people are really not special. If I went about stating that I didn't care for anti-gay straights, their displays of selfishness or what they were doing to society in the unnecessary trubble and conflict that they are creating then I would be promptly labeled an libtard dyke and/or feminazi by most people that I expressed that opinion to. People would be really upset by that too and plenty of them would go on to hate me for it. Thus, there is really no difference in my eyes.

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Re: I Hate Gays

Post by LuckyR » July 13th, 2017, 2:33 pm

Annski wrote:
Spiral Out wrote:If I went about stating that I didn't care for gays, their displays of selfishness or what they were doing to society in the unnecessary trouble and conflict that they are creating then I would be promptly labelled a homophobe by most people that I expressed that opinion to.

So then along would come other people to quickly condemn me for my views and they would probably say they didn't like me, my display of selfishness or what I was doing to society in the unnecessary trouble and conflict that I was creating.

So it just becomes an intolerance of intolerance and a homophobophobia of a homophobia, and it just gets passed down in turn.

It can be said that both sides are just trying to maintain the rights of people to be happy and live their lives in a way that satisfies their basic Human needs.

What is the moral difference between those who dislike someone for their views, and those who dislike those who dislike someone for their views?
As far as I see it, firstly hating someone based on their sexuality is not hating someone for their veiws as sexuality is not an opinion or a veiw. It is a sexuality. Either way, disliking someone for being gay and disliking someone for disliking people for being gay are different, and both are fine ethically on the grounds of it being okay to hold an opinion of your own choosing. But people are also free to fight against other opinions, and dislike other opinions as much as they want. Nobody has to be of the opinion that homosexual people are equal but that same idea means that nobody has to be of the opinion that it's fine to not consider homosexual people as equals either. Just like you do not have to like homosexual humans, nobody has to like you either.

Homophobic people are really not special. If I went about stating that I didn't care for anti-gay straights, their displays of selfishness or what they were doing to society in the unnecessary trubble and conflict that they are creating then I would be promptly labeled an libtard dyke and/or feminazi by most people that I expressed that opinion to. People would be really upset by that too and plenty of them would go on to hate me for it. Thus, there is really no difference in my eyes.
This thread in particular and Spiral's observation on it are both side effects of the internet/social mass media. Folks have hated gays since time began, the modern issue isn't the hatred, it is the ability to broadcast the hatred for literally thousands of times the number of people you actually know to read about it. Typically in a quasi-anonymous way. None of this is a surprise. What actually shocks me is the weight that an opinion from someone the victim doesn't know, carries. Especially in an "anonymous" world.
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: I Hate Gays

Post by OceanBlue » May 11th, 2019, 7:40 pm

Outsidelooking1n wrote:
May 29th, 2017, 5:34 am
My views regarding homosexuality stems on mainly how absurd, chaotic, and f*cked up nature is. I hear various reasons for it's existence and the main one I hear is "It's nature's form of population control." Which I think is still silly, why couldn't nature simply remove the desire to of mating in an organism in the first place? To me that makes better sense than having two of the same biological sex hump and lick on each other, finding alternative ways to have sex because obviously they don't have the correct "parts". Of course straight people do all kinds of weird perverted things to get their "jollies' off as well and have sex with absolutely no intention of procreation, just taking advantage of the mechanisms that make conception easier.

But anyway, I also want to add that it also bothers me when people generalize homosexuals being born that way, that's not entirely true either, someone could be straight for most of their lives and then become homosexual or bi etc. (ridiculous amount of "orientations" to keep up with) for various reasons. This is some of my views regarding homosexuality and sexuality in general since I have negative views towards sexuality, and bemused slightly by how people are just too "proud" of what nature gave them (having the idea - at least most of the time - that nature=good) but at the same time realizing that there needs to be rules in order to control it. Showing that while being "proud' (e.g. gays) one still needs to be careful with one's body and others. I get it's a way of... I guess coping, but excessive pride in a fault is ridiculous to me regardless of whether a person sees it as one or not.
Some people are asexual which means they aren't attracted to anyone. Bottom line is everyone is different, it's foolish of you to assume that some people just aren't attracted to other people :roll:

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Re: I Hate Gays

Post by Newme » May 17th, 2019, 5:44 pm

Outsidelooking1n wrote:
May 29th, 2017, 5:34 am
My views regarding homosexuality stems on mainly how absurd, chaotic, and f*cked up nature is. I hear various reasons for it's existence and the main one I hear is "It's nature's form of population control." Which I think is still silly, why couldn't nature simply remove the desire to of mating in an organism in the first place? To me that makes better sense than having two of the same biological sex hump and lick on each other, finding alternative ways to have sex because obviously they don't have the correct "parts". Of course straight people do all kinds of weird perverted things to get their "jollies' off as well and have sex with absolutely no intention of procreation, just taking advantage of the mechanisms that make conception easier.

But anyway, I also want to add that it also bothers me when people generalize homosexuals being born that way, that's not entirely true either, someone could be straight for most of their lives and then become homosexual or bi etc. (ridiculous amount of "orientations" to keep up with) for various reasons. This is some of my views regarding homosexuality and sexuality in general since I have negative views towards sexuality, and bemused slightly by how people are just too "proud" of what nature gave them (having the idea - at least most of the time - that nature=good) but at the same time realizing that there needs to be rules in order to control it. Showing that while being "proud' (e.g. gays) one still needs to be careful with one's body and others. I get it's a way of... I guess coping, but excessive pride in a fault is ridiculous to me regardless of whether a person sees it as one or not.
Good points.

Homosexuality is a disorder - not the way of nature. There are other sexual disorders like pedophilia. How absurd to say someone is born as a pedophile and can’t change.
“Empty is the argument of the philosopher which does not relieve any human suffering.” - Epicurus

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Re: I Hate Gays

Post by Greta » May 17th, 2019, 10:26 pm

Newme wrote:
May 17th, 2019, 5:44 pm
Homosexuality is a disorder - not the way of nature. There are other sexual disorders like pedophilia. How absurd to say someone is born as a pedophile and can’t change.
Amazing that people can still have so little clue about this.

Homosexuality is just a natural variant.

Homosexuality has always been with humanity. It's present in numerous other species too.

The issue of someone's homosexuality is in truth, hugely trivial, and nobody's else's business. Sadly, the abuses of homosexuals' human rights by ideologues is not trivial.

Paedophilia - its causes or classifications don't matter in this thread. Like cannibalism and violent theft, molesting innocents is a predatory behaviour that cannot be tolerated in civilised society.

Homosexuality, by contrast, involves consenting adults. Some competent, consenting adults of the opposite gender happen love each other both as people and sexually. This also sometimes happens with partners of the same gender. When it comes to what consenting adults might feel towards each other and how they express it ... that's nobody else's business.

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Re: I Hate Gays

Post by Sculptor1 » May 18th, 2019, 1:50 pm

Spiral Out wrote:
June 30th, 2013, 7:10 am
If I went about stating that I didn't care for gays, their displays of selfishness or what they were doing to society in the unnecessary trouble and conflict that they are creating then I would be promptly labelled a homophobe by most people that I expressed that opinion to.

So then along would come other people to quickly condemn me for my views and they would probably say they didn't like me, my display of selfishness or what I was doing to society in the unnecessary trouble and conflict that I was creating.

So it just becomes an intolerance of intolerance and a homophobophobia of a homophobia, and it just gets passed down in turn.
No the buck stops with your original statement which is prejudiced.

Since you do not, and cannot know ALL homosexuals; indeed you may like many that you do not know are gay right now, your statement "I hate Gays" is fallacious, or at best simple ignorance and prejudice.

When the rejoinder that condemns you for your statement is made, the case is not a general one but a specific one directly at you and your statement.

You do not get to hind behind your intolerance by pretending that there is an equivalence here: there is not.

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Re: I Hate Gays

Post by Karpel Tunnel » May 18th, 2019, 6:34 pm

Newme wrote:
May 17th, 2019, 5:44 pm
Good points.

Homosexuality is a disorder - not the way of nature.
Except that it occurs in all cultures and in many species other than humans. Not just sexual acts, but even animals pairing for life or regularly engaging in and preferring same sex sex and social contact. It's all over the place. It's been within the range of fairly common human activity for as long as we can look back. Unlike pedophilia it does not need, just as heterosexul sex does not need, to include consent violations and emotional damage.

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Re: I Hate Gays

Post by Consul » May 18th, 2019, 8:53 pm

Newme wrote:
May 17th, 2019, 5:44 pm
Homosexuality is a disorder - not the way of nature.
It seems you're projecting a normative order onto nature: the way things ought to be.
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